# Amazon should choose Detroit... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081 "2017-09-11T20:21:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/61 "2017-09-13T06:11:36Z")
It looks like [Chicago is preparing to make a bid](http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ori/ct-lincoln-yards-finkl-amazon-ryan-ori-0913-biz-20170912-column.html). I wonder if they’re preparing to provide bulletproof vests for all the employees. Personally I think Amazon needs to stage a cage match between Mike Duggan and Rahm Emanuel and then move somewhere that isn’t one of the murder capitals of the US. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/62 "2017-09-13T06:24:16Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > It looks like [Chicago is preparing to make a bid](http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ori/ct-lincoln-yards-finkl-amazon-ryan-ori-0913-biz-20170912-column.html). I wonder if they’re preparing to provide bulletproof vests for all the employees. > > Personally I think Amazon needs to stage a cage match between Mike Duggan and Rahm Emanuel and then move somewhere that isn’t one of the murder capitals of the US. The Chicago murder jokes are getting tired. There are plenty of cities with a higher per capita murder rate, most of that despicable crime in Chicago is in areas far far away from any area they’d be considering. I just walked through the Loop at midnight tonight to catch the red line. My biggest problem was deciding which podcast to listen to. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/63 "2017-09-13T12:38:18Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > A giant corporate hub full of fresh-faced tech professionals has to be staffed. These people aren’t going to want to move to a city known for crime, poverty, urban decay, and blasted industrial moonscapes. > > The reason there’s cheap real estate in Detroit is that everyone who could move out of Detroit has already moved out of Detroit. > > If cheap land is all you want, you can buy millions of acres of cornfield in the middle of Iowa and build a new corporate headquarters there. But cheap land isn’t all you want. You want nearby universities, you want good schools, you want services, you want culture, you want compliant local government. Yes, all that can be built from scratch, or rebuilt in the case of Detroit. But it’s a lot easier when it already exists. There are at least two really good public universities within 2.5 hours of downtown Detroit, and several decent ones. As for culture Detroit has plenty of that. The Detroit metropolitan area is a reasonably healthy one in terms of per capita income, the problem is that the _city_ is miserable. (Of course moving to one of the suburbs might not really help regenerate the city either). ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/64 "2017-09-13T13:05:14Z")
C’mon people. Read up on what’s going on here. Amazon is not leaving Seattle. This is a duplicate HQ. It also not a Distribution Center. It’s an office building/campus. R&D. Legal. Tech services. Video production. “Labor costs” are a non factor once the building is completed. Those saying DC, NY, Boston, etc. aren’t thinking about the absolute gridlock in traffic in those cities and the lack of space to build a huge campus. It doesn’t matter where Amazon builds, the investment banks will come to them. Hell, they probably already have big satellite offices in San Francisco and Seattle. And BTW, Denver is nothing like SLC. It is four times as big, has good transport with light rail reaching in all directions, including a new line from the airport to downtown. It also is a destination for travelling Broadway shows (Hamilton will be there next year on it’s first national tour) in it’s huge performing arts center. SLC has pro basketball and soccer, while Denver has those plus football, baseball, hockey and is a national hub for lacrosse and rugby. SLC is strictly minor league when it comes to culture. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/65 "2017-09-13T13:17:40Z")
A couple of things I forgot. The East coast is littered with distribution centers, which are becoming more and more robotisized and more and more products are being shipped directly by the manufacturer. Re: Denver. The Denver/Aurora metropolitan area, while full of very nice areas, also has the poorest parts of the state as well. A few years back, Boulder/Longmont was stripped from metro Denver and made it’s own metro area, along with it’s great schools, full employment, and wealthy population. Add those back in, and they’re only 30 minutes away, and Denver looks even better. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/66 "2017-09-13T13:45:44Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Isn’t UCF basically a gigantic community college masquerading as a 4 year university? I’ve considered it a place for all the C students that couldn’t get into FSU or UF to have a place to get a 4 year diploma. I wouldn’t think that UCF would have much appeal to Amazon. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I’m not saying Orlando is a potential landing spot for Amazon. I’m saying Atlanta isn’t because it doesn’t even have as many potential employees as (relatively) tiny Orlando. Though for the record, UCF is now harder to get into than FSU, with a slightly higher median SAT score and slightly lower high school GPA (when I went there, it was exactly what you describe, with the caveat that I didn’t want to go to UF or FSU because I’m brown and they’re in hillbilly country). ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/67 "2017-09-13T14:10:08Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > It looks like [Chicago is preparing to make a bid](http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ori/ct-lincoln-yards-finkl-amazon-ryan-ori-0913-biz-20170912-column.html). I wonder if they’re preparing to provide bulletproof vests for all the employees. > [@dalej42](#): > > The Chicago murder jokes are getting tired. Maybe **Projammer** is trying to feel better about living near Little Rock, i.e. “Most Dangerous City in America” 😉 Anyway, I was amused to see Crain’s Chicago Business calling the Amazon deal “Chicago’s to lose”. They’ll take a stab at it and have some good stuff to offer but I can’t believe anyone is seriously that optimistic about the chances. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/68 "2017-09-13T17:09:30Z")
Here’s the first detailed Chicago proposal: > **[Chicago developer aims at Amazon with $10B vision for former steel plant site](https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/ryan-ori/ct-lincoln-yards-finkl-amazon-ryan-ori-0913-biz-20170912-column.html)** > > Sterling Bay's massive North Side development site now has a name, a high-powered planning team and one big target: Amazon's second headquarters. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/69 "2017-09-13T17:37:37Z")
My best bet is Toronto - Amazon already has a dev center there, there’s great talent, good nearby universities, decent transit. Cost of living is high, but not NY/SF high. But its best characteristic is that it’s not in the US. For a company that hires a lot of foreign talent in a time when US immigration policy is turning regressive, having an out-of-country (but nearby!) headquarters would be a huge plus. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/70 "2017-09-13T17:46:02Z")
Vancouver has a climate similar to Seattle and also has the advantages of being in Canada. But is it too close to Seattle? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/71 "2017-09-13T19:44:27Z")
Does the relative instability of the Canadian Dollar have an effect and work against Toronto? At the salaries that these employees would command, a drop in the Loonie could really hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/72 "2017-09-13T19:55:43Z")
[Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-12/amazon-is-said-to-weigh-boston-in-search-for-second-headquarters) reported that Boston is the front runner for the new headquarters, although [Amazon denies it](https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2017/09/12/amazon-denies-boston-is-a-frontrunner-for-hq2.html). Which makes sense; why make a decision so quickly when the whole point was to see what the different cities offer. ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/73 "2017-09-13T20:13:00Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Anyway, I was amused to see Crain’s Chicago Business calling the Amazon deal “Chicago’s to lose”. They’ll take a stab at it and have some good stuff to offer but I can’t believe anyone is seriously that optimistic about the chances. Why not? It meets every stated criterion of Amazon’s. There are also two great, central, undeveloped locations just off the top of my head that would be perfect for a campus of the size necessary– **dalej42** posted a link to a proposal for one (the Finkl & Sons site), and there’s also a big, weedy lot on Roosevelt along the river that would be quite nice as well. Also, the city has a long, rich history of giving sweetheart deals to companies who agree to plop HQs downtown. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/74 "2017-09-13T20:20:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > [Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-12/amazon-is-said-to-weigh-boston-in-search-for-second-headquarters) reported that Boston is the front runner for the new headquarters, although [Amazon denies it](https://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2017/09/12/amazon-denies-boston-is-a-frontrunner-for-hq2.html). Which makes sense; why make a decision so quickly when the whole point was to see what the different cities offer. I’ve thought of that. Even if they’ve made up their mind already, it’s in their interest to make it look like a competition to get the best deal they can. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/75 "2017-09-13T20:24:43Z")
> [@BorgHunter](#): > > Why not? The best reason is because Amazon obviously wants some cutthroat bidding war with buckets and buckets of incentives (free land, tax breaks until the end of time, etc) that Chicago can’t afford. Especially if they have to develop transit infrastructure on top of it all. I think Chicago would be a great location but, unfortunately, it’s not a uniquely qualified location and I don’t think they can sweeten the pot over other qualified locations. ---
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/76 "2017-09-13T20:37:39Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The best reason is because Amazon obviously wants some cutthroat bidding war with buckets and buckets of incentives (free land, tax breaks until the end of time, etc) that Chicago can’t afford. I can practically guarantee that Emanuel is, as I’m typing this, frantically filling buckets with incentives to send Bezos’s way. It’s almost immaterial (to them, anyway) if the city can afford the deal; Emanuel is going to try to make it, and the aldermen will rubber stamp it if it gets that far. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/77 "2017-09-13T20:53:11Z")
It’ll never happen of course but I kind of hope some of these cities balk at the shameless request for incentives from a company with a market cap of something like 474 billion and 21 billion in cash on hand. Plus a CEO who is among the richest three or four people in the world. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/78 "2017-09-13T21:50:59Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The best reason is because Amazon obviously wants some cutthroat bidding war with buckets and buckets of incentives (free land, tax breaks until the end of time, etc) that Chicago can’t afford. Especially if they have to develop transit infrastructure on top of it all. > > I think Chicago would be a great location but, unfortunately, it’s not a uniquely qualified location and I don’t think they can sweeten the pot over other qualified locations. The transit infrastructure is no problem. The CTA had a huge funding project approved right at the end of the Obama administration. > **[CTA receives $1.1 billion in federal funding for Red Line improvements](https://abc7chicago.com/amp/cta-chicago-transit-authority-red-line-purple/1693091/)** > > A years-long project to upgrade two of the CTA's busiest lines is about to get a big infusion of cash from the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/79 "2017-09-13T22:06:45Z")
Biggest problem with Chicago is that it is the most corrupt city in America which I doubt Amazon wants to get involved with. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/80 "2017-09-13T22:12:57Z")
As a native Midwesterner, I would love to see Ammy choose Detroit. Eventually the area will turn the corner - the location is too central for it not to - and the early bird companies will get the cheap land/tax incentives worm. Yes, there are valid concerns about attracting talented people to Detroit, but you have two huge, well-regarded state universities in the area and lots of smaller ones in or near the Detroit area. Graduates need jobs and many Michigan natives would be amenable to remaining there Transportation systems exist, but probably need refurbishing and modernizing and thought would have to be given to the different transportation needs of Amazon from those of the automotive industry. Great Lakes shipping which was critical to automotive, for exampke, wouldn’t mean as much to Amazon, but the location of Detroit adjacent to Canada and situated on the international shipping lanes provided by the St Lawrence would no doubt be useful. There are still favorable areas to live around Detroit, but Ammy would probably have to take an active part in developing additional areas and ensuring adequate city services and schools. In sum, I would like to see it happen and it is doable because of low land cost, but I suspect they won’t want to put forth that type of effort and will want a situation that is much more plug-and-play than Detroit would be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081.md?page=5)