# Amazon should choose Detroit... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081 "2017-09-11T20:21:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/81 "2017-09-14T14:24:56Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > My best bet is Toronto - Amazon already has a dev center there, there’s great talent, good nearby universities, decent transit. Cost of living is high, but not NY/SF high. But its best characteristic is that it’s not in the US. For a company that hires a lot of foreign talent in a time when US immigration policy is turning regressive, having an out-of-country (but nearby!) headquarters would be a huge plus. Canada’s immigration policy has always been somewhat regressive, though. > [@dalej42](#): > > Does the relative instability of the Canadian Dollar have an effect and work against Toronto? At the salaries that these employees would command, a drop in the Loonie could really hurt. Not a problem at all. Just fix their salaries in Canadian dollars. Of course, then a hike in the Loonie will hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/82 "2017-09-14T14:28:13Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > As a native Midwesterner, I would love to see Ammy choose Detroit. “Ammy”, really? Is it such an improvement over “Amazon”? Who uses this silly nickname? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/83 "2017-09-14T14:56:23Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > “Ammy”, really? Is it such an improvement over “Amazon”? Who uses this silly nickname? I read it as Amway and thought, “What’s the big deal?” ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/84 "2017-09-14T15:12:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > “Ammy”, really? Is it such an improvement over “Amazon”? Who uses this silly nickname? Now now, don’t be so grumpy. My family uses the nickname out of affection. We love our Ammy. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/85 "2017-09-14T15:58:17Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I read it as Amway and thought, “What’s the big deal?” Chicago won the new Amway headquarters and now keeps pestering Milwaukee and Indianapolis about opening branch offices. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/86 "2017-09-14T16:24:15Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Chicago won the new Amway headquarters and now keeps pestering Milwaukee and Indianapolis about opening branch offices. what you did there? I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/87 "2017-09-14T23:18:59Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Here’s the first detailed Chicago proposal: > [http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ori/ct-lincoln-yards-finkl-amazon-ryan-ori-0913-biz-20170912-column.html](http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ori/ct-lincoln-yards-finkl-amazon-ryan-ori-0913-biz-20170912-column.html) Sounds appealing - but I’ll be surprised if Amazon ends up in or near Chicago. I have 3 friends who are long-term Chicago residents and have recently moved - or at least decided to move - away from there. They cite various reasons (crime included for two) but all mention the long-term fiscal outlook for Chicago and Illinois, which they see as brutally bad and likely cause untold pain for all who stay. The unfunded pension obligations alone are something truly staggering. I doubt Amazon wants to get in bed with that. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/88 "2017-09-15T00:17:49Z")
In all honesty, does someone really decide to move because of unfunded pension obligations?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/89 "2017-09-15T00:20:22Z")
Aren’t unfunded or underfunded pension obligations a problem nationwide, not just in Chicago or Illinois? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/90 "2017-09-15T00:42:44Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Aren’t unfunded or underfunded pension obligations a problem nationwide, not just in Chicago or Illinois? In places yes, but not generally on the same scale. Yes, people do move because of issues like that. It isn’t the pensions themselves, it is the general economic outlook and the fear that the current citizens of Illinois are going to have to be the ones to pay for unrealistic promises that started before many of them were even born with their own, hard cash and they won’t get anything for it themselves. People are smart enough to know that whole cities, states and commonwealths can collapse economically from chronic fiscal irresponsibility. It has already happened in many places like Detroit and Puerto Rico. It looks like Chicago is next in line. The effects may not be as fast moving as a hurricane but the devastation can be similar. It is best to get out while you can still sell your house and find some place else without the same problems. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/91 "2017-09-15T01:24:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Canada’s immigration policy has always been somewhat regressive, though. I’m certainly not an expert on Canadian immigration, but it has always been my understanding that at least for skilled labor, it is relatively easy to get work permission in Canada - that they have a visa similar to the US’s H-1B, but either don’t cap it or don’t cap it as low as the US. Is this not true? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/92 "2017-09-15T01:28:08Z")
Amazon just announced a new million-square-foot fulfillment center in Shelby Township, Michigan (30 miles north of Detroit) that will create 1000 jobs. If nothing else this shows some level of attraction for the Detroit metro area to Amazon. [link](https://www.clickondetroit.com/business/amazon-to-create-1k-jobs-with-new-shelby-township-fulfillment-center) mmm ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/93 "2017-09-15T12:37:17Z")
That’s probably not especially meaningful. Amazon has multiple fulfillment centers in the Chicago area and is still building more (nine by 2018, employing 8,000 people). I’d be surprised if they weren’t doing the same around most major cities or transit hubs. Edit: Nine total in Illinois, although I assume most if not all will be in the Chicago region. I know of at least six built/planned in the metro area. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/94 "2017-09-15T14:49:48Z")
Illinois’ and Chicago’s fiscal issues are probably a bit worse than many other places right now. That is a ding. But then Chicago does offer other advantages, some that are part of the listed metrics and some that are not. Public transportation to that Lincoln Yards site is excellent including bike friendly, for example. (Detroit’s public transportation is reputably horrible.) The area is in the middle of real neighborhoods, which seems to appeal to the Bezos ethos. Chicago also would help put a more “world city” face forward. Likely not the frontrunner but don’t write it off. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/95 "2017-09-15T16:39:04Z")
Detroit and taxes, a couple of thoughts; people who work in Detroit, unless otherwise arranged w/ their employer, pay Detroit city income tax along w/ state and federal; the city’s happy to turn around and rebate those taxes to the employer (in this case Amazon). The city just threw millions at the incredibly wealthy Ilitch family to build the Little Ceasar’s Arena w/ the stipulation of using a certain % of Detroit workers (which they simply didn’t do) so whether the city’s broke doesn’t matter. Amazon says they’re looking for good mass transit and the Detroit area only appears to have it; in practice this systems is rough shape and has been since the 70s, by design of the Big 3 automakers. Detroit’s not going to piss on their automakers by undoing the longterm marketing strategy of taking away transit to for people to use cars. The Detroit area has the workers, tech and otherwise, to staff HQ; the weather can be variable and challenging, but not for weeks on end. Lastly, the one lesson that’s stuck w/ me is a city shouldn’t put all its resources into one industry or employer; the 60 years+ ripple effects of the auto industry in SE Michigan are a glaring example of that. SLC as a choice has its own challenges; in the time I’ve lived here housing prices have soared and cost of living is comparable to the East Coast; right now, gas is $2.65/gallon for the cheap stuff, for example. And I don’t believe Amazon wants another HQ on this side of the country or else they’d have simply expanded in the same general area. My guess is it’ll be below the Mason-Dixon line and more than an hour or so drive inland to avoid severe weather. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/96 "2017-09-15T18:34:43Z")
Another advantage to Chicago is it easy and convenient to fly to just about everywhere in world. Chicago has two airports, and I believe it is unique in the USA that both major airports are connected to the city by trains which are right at the airport. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/97 "2017-09-15T19:36:23Z")
And the proposed site is pretty close to the Blue line, which goes directly to and from O’hare and is a quick transfer to the Orange line that goes into Midway. Also it would incorporate a new Metra station close by. And on the Chicago River with river taxi service an emerging means of transportation for the city. Using the river as a more important transportation artery, perhaps more formally integrated with CTA and Metra, would very likely be part of the deal. Also in regards to the river location is that combined with its being on the line for an extension of the 606 - a dedicated biking walking trail on an previous elevated rail line. There has been a push to create a bicycle trail (that would hook up with the 606) along the [entire Chicago River](https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20160324/logan-square/bike-trail-along-entire-chicago-river-it-could-happen). Now Chicago is already bike friendly, and [promoting biking is important to Amazon as an employer](http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/amazon-gives-a-push-to-biking-downtown/) … having that done, and perhaps upgrading some current bike lanes into “cycle tracks”, as part of the deal would be sweet. It’s even right off the Kennedy expressway for those who do that archaic driving thing. On the transportation front the Chicago proposal at least is hard to beat. And from University of Chicago and Northwestern to DePaul and U of I Circle to many more just in the city, let alone the excellent computer science program at the state school … well maybe Boston can boast access to more highly educated people graduating in the vicinity but few other locations can. Maybe closer to frontrunner than I was initially thinking … ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/98 "2017-09-17T03:19:24Z")
I would like for them to choose northern Virginia to help keep Virginia as a blue state.\*. I’m sure the people making the decision don’t really care about that, but it would be nice. - Yes, I’m assuming that liberals will outnumber conservatives among the new employees. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/99 "2017-09-17T04:44:00Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > My best bet is Toronto - Amazon already has a dev center there, there’s great talent, good nearby universities, decent transit. Cost of living is high, but not NY/SF high. But its best characteristic is that it’s not in the US. For a company that hires a lot of foreign talent in a time when US immigration policy is turning regressive, having an out-of-country (but nearby!) headquarters would be a huge plus. It’s not just the city of Toronto; a large part of Southern Ontario is collectively putting in a bid: ['No doubt:' Waterloo Region to join Toronto in bid for Amazon HQ](https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4289838) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/100 "2017-09-17T12:39:05Z")
> [@stillownedbysetters](#): > > Now now, don’t be so grumpy. My family uses the nickname out of affection. We love our Ammy. One man’s Amazon virtue is another’s “my Ammy” vice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081.md?page=6)