# Amazon should choose Detroit... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 11, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081 "2017-09-11T20:21:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/101 "2018-01-18T14:31:57Z")
Bumping this thread to add some news. Amazon’s whittled the possible list down to twenty (OK, they didn’t want to do _too much_ whittling, I guess). [Detroit is not on the list](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/18/technology/amazon-finalists-headquarters.html). ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/102 "2018-01-18T14:51:11Z")
oh well. I’m not against incentives (tax breaks etc.) for stuff like this if it’ll lead to tangible, decent paying jobs. But this whole thing has gone too far into the boot-licking zone. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/103 "2018-01-18T15:20:15Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > The Canadian news sources I listen to are treating it as a toss-up between Vancouver and Toronto. No bias there, I’m sure. I haven’t heard anyone say that those are front-runners. IF Amazon were to locate the new HQ in Canada – which I doubt – then those would be natural front-runners among Canadian cities. I don’t know what Amazon has in Vancouver but they already have a major development center in downtown Toronto and several fulfillment centers out in the burbs. Anyway it’s now down to a short list of 20 and Toronto is the only Canadian city on it. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/104 "2018-01-18T15:47:21Z")
My city is on the list; I almost wish it wasn’t. I guess I’m pulling to Toronto (go “international” or maybe Columbus since they seem to be the dark-horse. I always enjoy when a long-shot hits. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/105 "2018-01-18T17:42:17Z")
As a lifelong Chicagoan, I would love for Chicago to get HQ2, and we do have serious advantages as well as the aforementioned disadvantages. Something is drawing [company headquarters to the city](http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-chicago-company-headquarters-photos-photogallery.html). Something is causing the [city’s job market to rebound faster than the suburbs, with private-sector employment in the city at a 25-year high](http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-chicago-jobs-rebound-20180102-story.html). Yes, much of that is about Chicago proper vs. the suburbs, and many of the corporate-HQ moves were from elsewhere in Illinois. But if high taxes, corruption, unfunded pensions, all-Democrat governance, etc. are Illinois’s purported downfall, then Chicago should be an even more concentrated version of that, and thus more economically unsuccessful, than the rest of the state. But it ain’t. :rolleyes: That said, I believe that Amazon will end up in Toronto or nearby. With the Trump administration being hostile to immigration – and Jeff Bezos 🙂 – there are solid reasons for Amazon to want a business presence very near the United States but outside its legal and political reach. Add those to the other advantages of Toronto, and IMHO the scale tips in Toronto’s favor. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/106 "2018-01-18T18:45:12Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > That said, I believe that Amazon will end up in Toronto or nearby. With the Trump administration being hostile to immigration – and Jeff Bezos 🙂 – there are solid reasons for Amazon to want a business presence very near the United States but outside its legal and political reach. Add those to the other advantages of Toronto, and IMHO the scale tips in Toronto’s favor. A few months ago I would have dismissed Toronto, but I don’t think it can be so easily dismissed anymore. I still think it’s a long shot relative to its American counterparts, but there are some solid reasons for putting a hub there, including what you just talked about. Toronto is also a major financial and transportation hub. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/107 "2018-01-18T21:57:02Z")
9 of the 20 cities on the list have won stanley cups in the past 40 or so years. Of course Toronto is not among those 9 so that’s a strike against them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/108 "2018-01-18T23:08:49Z")
Toronto absolutely will not get it. This complex is scheduled to contain a huge shipping facility, right? Planning to locate that outside of the US with NAFTA’s future in serious jeopardy would be an idiotic move. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/109 "2018-01-18T23:41:31Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Toronto absolutely will not get it. This complex is scheduled to contain a huge shipping facility, right? Planning to locate that outside of the US with NAFTA’s future in serious jeopardy would be an idiotic move. But with a shipping hub outside the US, Amazon could ride out a NAFTA repeal or Trumpian trade war by having non-US suppliers deliver to its non-US shipping hub, from which it would ship to non-US final customers, all without goods ever being on the wrong ([del]Smoot-Hawley[/del] Trumpian high-tariff) side of the US border. Amazon could keep using its US facilities to ship to US final customers. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/110 "2018-01-18T23:42:34Z")
I don’t think HQ2 is going to contain a shipping facility but instead have offices, especially for tech workers. Amazon already has plenty of shipping facilities all over the US. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/111 "2018-01-19T03:05:57Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Toronto absolutely will not get it. This complex is scheduled to contain a huge shipping facility, right? Planning to locate that outside of the US with NAFTA’s future in serious jeopardy would be an idiotic move. Yeah…I tend to agree that it’s a long shot. If it were building a center for tech and innovation, I would think that Toronto would be in the running. But it’s a long shot. If I understand it correctly, this ploy by Bezos seems to have more to do with the Amazon ecosystem and building a long-term presence that incorporates all aspects of its business, including (not insignificantly) whole foods. Amazon is different from any other tech company on the face of the earth. It’s not a tech niche like Facebook or even Google. Amazon is tech that wants to be in your home and an essential part of your daily life. It’s West Coast start-up meeting the Main Street grocery and goods store. There’s probably never been a company like Amazon in human history. They’re going for the big play here. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/112 "2018-01-19T15:54:55Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > But with a shipping hub outside the US, Amazon could ride out a NAFTA repeal or Trumpian trade war by having non-US suppliers deliver to its non-US shipping hub, from which it would ship to non-US final customers, all without goods ever being on the wrong ([del]Smoot-Hawley[/del] Trumpian high-tariff) side of the US border. Amazon could keep using its US facilities to ship to US final customers. Toronto also allows more options for hiring non-US workers. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/113 "2018-01-19T16:05:19Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I don’t think HQ2 is going to contain a shipping facility but instead have offices, especially for tech workers. Amazon already has plenty of shipping facilities all over the US. You are right about HQ2 not having fulfillment or shipping as part of it; the jobs it will bring are not entry level except for possibly some support staff and a lot of that will be contracted out. HQ is more technoweenies and bean-counters and assorted bosses. Maybe some employee-related phone banks and training for entry/lower level bosses coming from outside sources. Since I work there (shipping) I will differ with you a little on the shipping aspect ------ the sortation system is still growing (its basically just a little over 3 years old) and the home delivery system is still in its infancy. In other words even with the number in operation in the US its going to get even larger by magnitudes. Now that its shown its worth in the US there is a big push to make it larger world-wide; maybe even more than a big push since most countries don’t have quite as good a mail system as the USPS. Plus I am not sure how many years are left in the contract with the USPS. Given Amazon’s nature to not just want it done well but done _their way_ look for the whole transportation/shipping side to go nuts over the next 5-10 years. Take the reliance on anything outside their own network off the table. Even on the product side - warehouses and filling orders - things are still getting larger and expanding. I am strictly peasant level Siberian Box Mines local #419 but we literally see the writing on the walls every day. If you think Amazon is big now you ain’t seen nothing yet. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/114 "2018-01-19T16:42:26Z")
Denver has everything Amazon wants - young, tech savvy, educated populace, universities, good transport, tons of recreation, and a desireable place to live. The only thing they don’t have is the willingness to pay-to-play. Colorado’s Governor was on TV last night and said so. He said Denver might have 20% of the tax concessions other places might offer and that there was no infrastructure in place for a campus of that size. He sounded like they had given up, frankly. So either they are out of it or they are slow-playing things behind the scenes. I wouldn’t put that past them. The did annex all the land out to DIA and there is plenty of room for a campus there and the infrastructure is in place including light rail. It would need to be expanded, but the hard work has been done. It’ll be a question of money and Denver’s willingness to invest. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/115 "2018-01-19T19:09:55Z")
I’d go with New York City. On a port. Major airport. Huge population. Alot of diversity on their doorstep. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/116 "2018-01-19T20:17:04Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’d go with New York City. > > On a port. Major airport. Huge population. I get the impression that Amazon wants to be transformative to its new host city and New York is too large for Amazon to have that impact. Arguably Chicago is as well. Seattle is the nation’s 18th largest city so if Amazon wants to be the major driver then they’d be better off in a place like Charlotte, Columbus or Indianapolis (other considerations aside). ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/117 "2018-01-19T22:37:16Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’d go with New York City. > > On a port. Major airport. Huge population. Alot of diversity on their doorstep. Where would Amazon build in New York City, though? Their original proposal was for 100 acres, and I don’t think Central Park is for sale. It wouldn’t have to be Central Park, of course, or even anywhere in Manhattan, but how tough would it be to find a site in NYC for a project that big? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/118 "2018-01-19T22:45:19Z")
The requirement wasn’t for a hundred acres, but for 500,000 square feet of office space (and later for up to 8.1 million sq ft). That’s certainly possible in a few large office buildings in Manhattan, or even in Brooklyn or Queens. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/119 "2018-01-20T15:15:31Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’d go with New York City. > > On a port. Major airport. Huge population. Alot of diversity on their doorstep. Again, Amazon HQ2 **doesn’t need a port**! This matter has _nothing_ whatsoever to do with shipping. This is about _office workers_, many of the techie flavor. A nice airport is good for people coming and going for business meetings. But it doesn’t have to be one of the major ones. Think people, esp. tech people. How many are available locally? How many can be persuaded to move there? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081/120 "2018-01-20T15:56:02Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The requirement wasn’t for a hundred acres, but for 500,000 square feet of office space (and later for up to 8.1 million sq ft). That’s certainly possible in a few large office buildings in Manhattan, or even in Brooklyn or Queens. I’d guess that what Amazon really wants is a campus though rather than 8.1 million feet of vertical space. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amazon-should-choose-detroit/796081.md?page=7)