# Ambiguous warning about "white people" post **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 8, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635 "2020-02-08T16:51:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/21 "2020-02-09T00:43:32Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > the least they could do is grow some thicker skin and maybe allow people who are actually threatened by his rise to power a little room to vent. Which is exactly what \*\*\*has \*\*\*been permitted here, as long as it doesn’t flout board rules. We’ve had perhaps literally 50,000 posts on this forum slamming Trump or Trump voters since Election Night 2016, that weren’t given warnings by moderators, because they were venting that was within the rules. People were and are allowed to get hot and vent anger as long as they didn’t cross “The Line.” I agree that “The Line” is often unclear or vague, but people were perfectly fine venting the heat of their anti-Trump anger as long as they didn’t cross it. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/22 "2020-02-09T00:46:58Z")
Remember, lately people have been attempting to redefine “racism” so that only white people can be racist and nothing said about white people can be racist. It is yet another example of newspeaking in action. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/23 "2020-02-09T00:50:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The problem with saying “history and context matters” is that it can be morphed into a get-out-of-jail free card for virtually any bad behavior against a ‘privileged’ group. It’s something of a carte blanche. Let’s look at this again: > [@](#): > > I’m surely happy to tell you. White people. That’s why Trump won. That’s actually a fact. > [@](#): > > Trump is the manifestation of white anger and fear. Technically an opinion, but pretty demonstrably true, I would think. > [@](#): > > Trumpism is a disease This sounds like something an overwhelming majority of posters, including white posters, would write in The BBQ Pit. I’ve pretty much written as much on multiple occasions. > [@](#): > > and white people are the virus that unleashed it on America. I’ve written that Trump supporters are bacteria in the Pit. Perhaps this warning is premised on the fact that it was posted in the wrong forum? Okay, maybe I could see that. But we do sometimes occasionally use strong, figurative language outside the pit. > [@](#): > > Until white people are outnumbered and out-bred, soon thankfully, the disease will spread unchecked. I mean, is this necessarily wrong? I would have to agree that having a more diverse country in which power is shared might be at least thought of as at least one solution to the current problem. I don’t think diversity in and of itself removes friction, but with proper governance, it could help. > [@](#): > > It’s temporary and hopefully the damage can be mitigated, but that remains to be seen. Call it white-lash or backlash, it doesn’t matter. Terms like ‘centrists’ or ‘moderates’ only gloss over the fact that it’s a white people problem. Whites. There is no other rational explanation for such an irrational, unqualified and worthless human being to be installed in the White House. Only a huge majority of conspirators could accomplish this crime, and that is White Folks. I’m struggling to understand what’s necessarily wrong here. I’m guessing we whites just aren’t always in the mood to have our power questioned and challenged. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/24 "2020-02-09T00:53:51Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Remember, lately people have been attempting to redefine “racism” so that only white people can be racist and nothing said about white people can be racist. It is yet another example of newspeaking in action. Pick up the original constitution and read through it again, and tell me which group created a new nation on the foundation of white supremacy. Which ethnic group wrote said constitution? Which ethnic group was enslaved? And since someone tossed around the word ‘genocide,’ which other ethnic group was subjected to genocide? Hint: it wasn’t whites, we’re still here. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/25 "2020-02-09T02:01:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m asking the question because I think this is a good thing to discuss. I expect there’s some nuance, but I’d like to see what the staff thinks. > > I don’t know exactly. I saw the post in question as about [whiteness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States) (which has been discussed in many threads) – the concept that is responsible for all this terrible stuff in the first place. I’d agree with the characterization of whiteness as a terrible virus, and destroying the concept of whiteness has nothing to do with violence in any way. But I’m reading that post with my own biases and understandings, and of course others’ will vary. So I think it’s worth discussing. Exactly your own biases and understandings, you won’t come right out and say you hate whites, it’s just ‘whiteness’ you hate, that’s why your looking for the mods to ok it so you can try and move the line of what’s ok. It’s pretty obvious from your posting history you have a problem with whites, not as in ‘whiteness’ but as in the monolithic group of people why not just come out and admit it? Three possible responses from OP 1. Oh we’ve got a mind reader here, but hey I’ve been careful to say all this without actually going over the magic line. 2. Your post has nothing to do with mine, even though you are responding directly to my words. 3. Thanks for sharing your opinion, I’m so thankful I won’t respond to what you wrote. Sorry dude you suck. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/26 "2020-02-09T02:02:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m sure this is why – and if so, that’s a false assumption. It takes virtually no effort to specify the reason, and there’s no reason moderators should make such an assumption. Why should there be any resistance to something as simple as being sure to specify the reason and justification for moderation? > > This is what my question is about. Does this board consider that “XXXX about white people” and “XXXX about black people” are identical, moderation-wise? I was under the impression that the boundaries were not quite so bare-bones and simple, so to speak, but rather allowed enough nuance to recognize (as I believe) that there are some circumstances in which this kind of thing can be very different depending on what’s being discussed – i.e. that sometimes “XXXX about black people” is racist and hateful, but the same or similar sentiment about white people is not. It’s not an easy topic or an easy thing to discuss. > > But here’s an example of what I’m talking about: > > “For most of American history, white people as a group were hateful, violent, and deadly enemies to be feared by black people.” > > IMO, that’s definitely not a racist or hateful sentiment. But the reverse would be very racist and hateful, IMO. Very different circumstances, even if the words are pretty much identical, IMO. I’m interested in the rules as the board sees them. If I substituted black for white, and Obama for Trump and said the same thing, you would want that modded. It seems like you only want to allow opinions you either agree with or you subjectively believe to be true. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/27 "2020-02-09T02:58:38Z")
IMHO the referenced post was was not only racist, but managed to hit the trifecta against board rules by implying (a) all members of a particular racial or ethnic group are an integrated bloc who all have the same behaviors due to a mental disease (racism), (b) implying that members of such group should be reduced in percentage numbers (genocide), and © blaming solely this racial group for a major historical problem (hate speech). It’s unfortunate because the post does contain a grain of truth, as for example the fact that many Trumpists are indeed driven by anger and fear, and that white supremacists – though their numbers may not be large – have tended to coalesce around Trump. But then it goes off the rails in blaming the white race for everything and becomes racist and incoherent, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/28 "2020-02-09T03:06:43Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I mean, is this necessarily wrong? I would have to agree that having a more diverse country in which power is shared might be at least thought of as at least one solution to the current problem. I don’t think diversity in and of itself removes friction, but with proper governance, it could help. Hate and racism is wrong. Even against white people. I was sure you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/29 "2020-02-09T03:38:28Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If I substituted black for white, and Obama for Trump and said the same thing, you would want that modded. Yep. That’s why I brought that up – I want to know the position of the staff. > [@](#): > > It seems like you only want to allow opinions you either agree with or you subjectively believe to be true. Actually, all my opinions are objective fact. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/30 "2020-02-09T03:50:59Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Exactly your own biases and understandings, you won’t come right out and say you hate whites, it’s just ‘whiteness’ you hate, that’s why your looking for the mods to ok it so you can try and move the line of what’s ok. It’s pretty obvious from your posting history you have a problem with whites, not as in ‘whiteness’ but as in the monolithic group of people why not just come out and admit it? I’d be happy to discuss the concept of whiteness in an appropriate thread, since it’s clear here that you don’t actually understand it. But it wouldn’t be appropriate here. > [@](#): > > Three possible responses from OP > > 1. Oh we’ve got a mind reader here, but hey I’ve been careful to say all this without actually going over the magic line. > > 2. Your post has nothing to do with mine, even though you are responding directly to my words. > > 3. Thanks for sharing your opinion, I’m so thankful I won’t respond to what you wrote. > > Sorry dude you suck. 😉 Somehow you read my mind, even though this post doesn’t really seem to answer anything I wrote. But I appreciate your sentiment nonetheless. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/31 "2020-02-09T03:51:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Actually, all my opinions are objective fact. 😉 More like OBJECTIONABLE. (I kid.) ---
**Author:** ![BeardOfBees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@BeardOfBees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeardOfBees)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/32 "2020-02-09T04:10:00Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Hate and racism is wrong. Even against white people. I was sure you knew that. Racism is about power. It isn’t possible for people of color to be racist toward white people in the United States, at least in any meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/33 "2020-02-09T04:16:33Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > IMHO the referenced post was was not only racist, but managed to hit the trifecta against board rules by implying (a) all members of a particular racial or ethnic group are an integrated bloc who all have the same behaviors due to a mental disease (racism), (b) implying that members of such group should be reduced in percentage numbers (genocide), and (c) blaming solely this racial group for a major historical problem (hate speech). > > It’s unfortunate because the post does contain a grain of truth, as for example the fact that many Trumpists are indeed driven by anger and fear, and that white supremacists – though their numbers may not be large – have tended to coalesce around Trump. But then it goes off the rails in blaming the white race for everything and becomes racist and incoherent, IMHO. “Many trumpists”…yeah, like 63 million. You don’t get it. Here’s the thing, white folk: you don’t have to take the message to heart personally. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/34 "2020-02-09T04:47:37Z")
> [@pool](#): > > It’s pretty obvious from your posting history you have a problem with whites, not as in ‘whiteness’ but as in the monolithic group of people why not just come out and admit it? This is something people don’t understand about “whiteness” - it’s not people with white skin. Think about it: Barack Obama has one black parent, and one white parent. He could be called the first black president, but he could never be called a white president, even if his skin had been a lot paler. That asymmetry is “whiteness.” It’s not about ancestry, not about skin color. It’s about how people perceive “purity,” and how wrong they are about that asymmetry. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/35 "2020-02-09T04:51:24Z")
I want to ask what is actually being suggested here, policy-wise. Should mods actually give a 30% leniency cushion to posts that contain invective against white people, versus posts against black people? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/36 "2020-02-09T04:54:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I want to ask what is actually being suggested here, policy-wise. Should mods actually give a 30% leniency cushion to posts that contain invective against white people, versus posts against black people? Mods should realize that most of this board is white and male. When people who aren’t a) white and/or\* b) male try to post something that seems (ZOMG) “offensive,” try to understand the viewpoint of the poster…if we’re really about fighting ignorance, that is. \*I’m putting that out there for my sisters on this board - I do love sisters - who don’t feel they have respect and have a voice. It’s not just about race; women are under-represented on the Dope and I’m tired of women (white/black/brown/yellow/whatever) being tone-policed and told what their experiences are by macho white males. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/37 "2020-02-09T04:55:32Z")
> [@BeardOfBees](#): > > Racism is about power. It isn’t possible for people of color to be racist toward white people in the United States, at least in any meaningful way. I realize that this is mainstream doctrine among the academic left, but it’s still nonsense. _Doing harm_ is about power. It’s quite possible for someone to have racist attitudes, to treat another race as a monolithic group and wish harm on all people in that group, while being powerless to actually harm them. To suggest otherwise is a disingenuous semantic game. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/38 "2020-02-09T04:58:27Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I realize that this is mainstream doctrine among the academic left, but it’s still nonsense. _Doing harm_ is about power. It’s quite possible for someone to have racist attitudes, to treat another race as a monolithic group and wish harm on all people in that group, while being powerless to actually harm them. To suggest otherwise is a disingenuous semantic game. It’s not nonsense. Why not accept your ignorance. Accept that you don’t know what racism is. Unless you’ve actually experienced real racism and a loss of opportunity, power, or benefit as a result of your race, you will never know. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/39 "2020-02-09T05:39:49Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Why not accept your ignorance. Accept that you don’t know what racism is. Unless you’ve actually experienced real racism and a loss of opportunity, power, or benefit as a result of your race, you will never know. I fully accept that I have never experienced the effects of racism. And that the first thing we must always do is listen to the experiences of people who have. Anti-white racism is not a threat to anyone, and I’m not arguing for symmetrical moderation - I don’t agree with the simplistic “how would that look if you substitute black for white” metric that some posters have suggested above. It’s perfectly understandable that people of color who have been exposed to a lifetime of racism may be angered by the experience, and we must listen to what they have to say. But I don’t think this implies that people of color should be treated in the patronizing manner that you imply, that their experience of racism has so deranged them that they should be treated as permanent victims, utterly incapable of controlling themselves and adhering to _any_ standards of discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635/40 "2020-02-09T05:42:49Z")
There’s an excellent critical analysis of the notion of redefining racism to mean [prejudice+power] here: > **[Prejudice plus power](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Prejudice_plus_power)** > > "Prejudice plus power" is a redefinition of words like "racism"\[1\]\[2\] and "sexism",\[3\] taking on the following form: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ambiguous-warning-about-white-people-post/847635.md?page=3)