# Amendment One Passes in NC **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 9, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345 "2012-05-09T01:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/101 "2012-05-09T22:50:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Try making a coherent objection. Meaning that your logic beanie wasn’t enough. It was explained in detail. Not my fault that you tried to pipe in, and so weakly. > [@Marley23](#): > > No, I think it’s nonsense - not because I fail to see it, but because I see it’s a waste of time. They already have the high ground. Forcing them toward higher and higher ground is just a way of adding to their burdens and making it harder for them to get what they’re seeking. It’s only pretending to help. They are already correct and already have the high ground. They don’t need more high ground, and they don’t need additional burdens and increasingly difficult standards or smaller demands that won’t get them more votes. We could spend all day making up ways to drum up more sympathy for gays who want to get married, but what’s the point? They’re not asking for marriage rights because they’re exemplary people - they want those rights because they’re people. Straight people don’t have to be exemplary to get married; gay people shouldn’t have to be either. They’ve already proved that to a lot of people, and not that long from now, a much larger chunk of voters will recognize it. Fine, you disagree with the _strategy_. But the point I was making still stands. Your bias regarding the issue is clouding your logic. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/102 "2012-05-09T23:14:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It was explained in detail. Yes, it was. And explained in detail, it still didn’t work because it says nothing about the merits and failings of either statement. ‘You said something your opponents don’t like, and they sometimes say things you don’t like!’ is not ironic and doesn’t indicate that anything is wrong with **jayjay** ’s comparison. > [@](#): > > Fine, you disagree with the _strategy_. But the point I was making still stands. What point? The one about the fictional “purer moral high ground?” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/103 "2012-05-10T00:20:12Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > You can’t do anything in a democracy without winning elections. That’s not a “fearful position” of yesteryear. > > What’s dishonest is mischaracterizing my disagreement with your argument as a _dismissal_ of it. I’ve addressed your points as I understand them. You, on the other hand, continue to handwave the despised _politics_ of the issue away as if they’re minor obstacles to the resolution of institutionalized discrimination, when in the fact they’re the very heart of the problem. Well, I guess Obama agrees with me. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/104 "2012-05-10T00:21:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, it was. And explained in detail, it still didn’t work because it says nothing about the merits and failings of either statement. ‘You said something your opponents don’t like, and they sometimes say things you don’t like!’ is not ironic and doesn’t indicate that anything is wrong with **jayjay** ’s comparison. You might want to reread the exchange, because that is not near an accurate characterization of what I said. Jayjay’s comparisons were asinine. Equating those who don’t favor SSM with those who favor child molestation, wife beating and lynching is complete nonsense. (But at least it shows that one side cannot keep their senses about them while debating the issue.) The irony is that almost every time the slippery slope argument is explored and polygamy or bestiality come up, SSM advocates have a hissy fit—_incorrectly_ whining (fallaciously), “How DARE you compare homosexuality to those things!!! Huff!!!” Get it yet? The one who claims that those exploring the slippery slope argument are vile for “comparing” SSM to such vile things raises up his hand and does the very thing he accuses the other side of. The irony is compounded by the fact that the slippery slope argument does NOT _compare_ SS couples to polygamists or anything thing else. Yet, the nonsense he spewed compares SSM opponents to those who are pro-child molestation. And that is some comical shit right there. > [@Marley23](#): > > What point? The one about the fictional “purer moral high ground?” Fictional? No. It’s an argument that is purer in that in seizes the moral high ground while leaving aside the baggage that is most objectionable to the other side. Sheeze, this really isn’t this hard. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/105 "2012-05-10T00:33:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Get it yet? You’re explaining an argument I already understood. You don’t have to keep re-explaining it. > [@](#): > > It’s an argument that is purer in that in seizes the moral high ground The moral high ground isn’t up for grabs here. > [@](#): > > while leaving aside the baggage that is most objectionable to the other side. And it codifies same sex relationships as less valid than straight relationships and makes gays lesser citizens. It seems to me that doesn’t do very much for the larger cause of gay rights. > [@](#): > > Sheeze, this really isn’t this hard. You don’t get bonus points for loudly announcing you’ve convinced yourself. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/106 "2012-05-10T00:40:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re explaining an argument I already understood. You don’t have to keep re-explaining it. Oh, so you do see the irony in hateful nonsense he posted. Excellent. > [@Marley23](#): > > The moral high ground isn’t up for grabs here. This statement proves that you are unable to grasp what I’ve been saying. Unbelievable. > [@Marley23](#): > > And it codifies same sex relationships as less valid than straight relationships and makes gays lesser citizens. It seems to me that doesn’t do very much for the larger cause of gay rights. That goes to strategy, as I said. That does not invalidate my statement. I guess you really do find this hard. > [@Marley23](#): > > You don’t get bonus points for loudly announcing you’ve convinced yourself. But I do get them for being able to apply logic and follow an argument and not let biases get in the way. Maybe you should give it a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/107 "2012-05-10T00:48:36Z")
I truly get it. It’s truly wrong. I find this easy. Believable. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/108 "2012-05-10T00:51:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I truly get it. It’s truly wrong. I find this easy. Believable. Oh, I’ll play! What—specifically—is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/109 "2012-05-10T01:07:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, I guess Obama agrees with me. And yet, I don’t consider him an insufferable twit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/110 "2012-05-10T02:02:36Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > And yet, I don’t consider him an insufferable twit. What the hell is that supposed to mean? And why would you think I care about that? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/111 "2012-05-10T02:18:45Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > And yet, I don’t consider him an insufferable twit. This sounds like an insult of **John Mace** , and you’re not allowed to insult other users - even by implication - in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/112 "2012-05-10T03:11:15Z")
**magellan01** you are right that it is on unfair to compare SSM opponents to child molesters. Klansman and child molesters are different kinds of evil. A fair comparison would be the racist bigots against Loving in Loving vs Virginia: [Arguments Against Interracial Marriage and Equal Marriage](http://vfm.typepad.com/vermont_freedom_to_marry/files/Arguments_Against_Interracial_Marriage_and_Equal_Marriage.pdf) Arguments against SSM all line up with bigoted arguments against interracial marriage. I wonder why that is. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/113 "2012-05-10T03:53:54Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > **magellan01** you are right that it is on unfair to compare SSM opponents to child molesters. Klansman and child molesters are different kinds of evil. > > A fair comparison would be the racist bigots against Loving in Loving vs Virginia: > [Arguments Against Interracial Marriage and Equal Marriage](http://vfm.typepad.com/vermont_freedom_to_marry/files/Arguments_Against_Interracial_Marriage_and_Equal_Marriage.pdf) > > Arguments against SSM all line up with bigoted arguments against interracial marriage. I wonder why that is. Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! It’s because all those arguments are pinheaded bigoted counter-factual nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/114 "2012-05-10T04:22:18Z")
Sorry, the answer is right, but we don’t have any more cookies. Set them down right over there by **Mags** and now they’re all gone… ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345/115 "2012-05-10T05:15:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This sounds like an insult of **John Mace** , and you’re not allowed to insult other users - even by implication - in this forum. You’re right to rebuke my post. I should’ve restrained the snark and responded differently. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > What the hell is that supposed to mean? And why would you think I care about that? I engage in discussion with you **John** because you take care as a matter of course to consider your arguments and are capable of changing your opinion. I tend to address your points directly and offer counterarguments where I disagree. This in hope that either you will show where my argument is lacking, or take my points but offer reasonable counterpoints. When you fail to reflect that respect, you do a disservice to both arguments. You’ve handwaved the probability of blowback from presidential advocacy which might reduce its efficacy or even produce an opposite effect and you’ve failed to note that this pragmatic aspect is itself an ethical compunction which should be considered by a national leader. Instead, you’ve made the breezy observation that POTUS appears to agree with your disdain for the politics of the issue, based purely on the fact that he has used some language similar to what you’d like him to use. This superficial response prompted my umbrage. Recognizing the insignificance of this subtopic to the point of this thread (our conversation should’ve been part of **Eve** ’s thread [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=651125) instead) and the likelihood that you find my opinion beneath your lofty consideration, I’m prepared to take my disappointment back to Lurkersville. Doesn’t really matter to me, but since you’re the one I’m arguing with, it’s up to you whether the argument is worth pursuing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/amendment-one-passes-in-nc/621345.md?page=5)