# America: A NATION OF WHINERS!!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2001, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891 "2001-05-29T14:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ultimate_Scapegoat)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/21 "2001-05-29T16:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cartooniverse \* > \*\*_Originally Posted by **The Ultimate Scapegoat** _ > > > [@](#): > > > > I’m . . . you are. > > Okay, snickerdoodle. You might have missed the carefully engraved sign on the door, some do. It’s understandable, so let me just be your fucking Tour Guide here, okay? > > \*\*THIS IS THE STRAIGHT DOPE BARBECUE PIT. YOU ARE TIRED OF HAIRSPLITTERS??? THEN FUCK OFF \*\*. Go find other areas within SDMB, or- heck, here’s a concept- stop polluting this board with your inane laryngial spew. > > Around here, we’re what they call people people. You say what you want, you lay it on the line, and you take the shit that flies your way AS A RESULT THEREOF. > > But hey, thanks so much for stopping by and make sure you close the screen door behind you on the way out, okay? We’re trying to get a handle on the whole West Nile Virus thing, and the smell seems to have attracted some insects. :rolleyes: > > Cartooniverse > \*\* You know what, I’m done responding top you dopes and morons. I dont feel like getting accused of being a troll, so I’m just going to sit back and allow people like you to make idiotic statements like the one above and expose yourselves for the nitwits that you are. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/22 "2001-05-29T16:39:01Z")
In other words: “Waaaah! They’re picking on me! Someone say I’m right an they wrong, because I have nothing left to pull out of my ass except my head but I’m so used to what it smells like up there so I’m going to start calling names!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mrsmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@mrsmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrsmore)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/23 "2001-05-29T16:56:30Z")
…oh,nice Kids in the Hall refference by the way. you’re right…a bunch of whiners complaining about whiners and I’m no better cause how am I using my free time here…to complain about whiners complaining about whiners…oooooh I’m getting a headache! I do agree to some point. I had to attend a meeting recently and it was held in this 500-thousand dollar home…all the 500-thousand dollar home neighbors were complaining about how expensive movie popcorn is and how they sneak home popped popcorn in to save money. they all looked at me and said “Oh you must think we’re horrible people!” I said, “…no I’m just thinking how lucky I am to have a 50-thousand dollar home…because I can afford to buy popcorn!” by the way…as my mother always said…there’s starving children in china…quit yer whining ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ultimate_Scapegoat)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/24 "2001-05-29T16:58:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monster104 \* > \*\*In other words: > “Waaaah! They’re picking on me! Someone say I’m right an they wrong, because I have nothing left to pull out of my ass except my head but I’m so used to what it smells like up there so I’m going to start calling names!” > :rolleyes: \*\* Recess must have just let out. This is exactly what I mean. Frankly, Monster I had no problem with your argument until you told me “take my head out of my ass.” As a matter of fact, had you argued your point like a GENTLEMAN or a LADY, whichever might apply, I might not have even responded, since it had valid points. Unfortunately your logic was obscured by your rhetoric. My OP did NOT contain any personal attacks at other Dopers; your the one that sunk to that low level. YOU are the one who lowered the debate to the lowest common denominator, not me. So now I’m trapped. I can: a. continue to participate in the thread, put up with name calling, and respond in kind, which would then turn me into a troll since it would be ME making multiple posts attacking people OR b. Point made, back out gracefully and allow everyone to post comments like the one above, and read how I’m a “child” and a “crybaby” because I won’t allow myself to be dragged down into their personal hell. You know, I forgot how immature some of the people on this MB are. I for the time being, will take the high road and reemphasize my original argument: AMERICANS, IN GENERAL, IN MY OPINION, ARE LAZY, SPOILED WHINERS, FOR THE REASONS STATED ABOVE! You jackasses. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/25 "2001-05-29T18:22:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > Recess must have just let out. I think you’re off by about four hours, TUS. > [@](#): > > This is exactly what I mean. Frankly, Monster I had no problem with your argument until you told me “take my head out of my ass.” This is the pit. If you can’t take name-calling or you don’t like it, feel free to leave. We call them as we see them. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately your logic was obscured by your rhetoric. Whereas you didn’t need to worry about rhetoric, as there was nothing for yours to obscure. > [@](#): > > YOU are the one who lowered the debate to the lowest common denominator, not me. You ARE the lowest common denominator . . . Goodbye! > [@](#): > > a. \ > > b. \ Two things, TUS. Firstly: 1. I did trash service for work today. Five hours of it or so. And the only thing that was more putrid than your “arguments” so far was the garbage, mostly meat, of a catering service. It almost made me vomit. A friend of mine literally turned green. 2. As I said, it’s the pit. Don’t like it? Feel free to fuck off and go hang in a more happy-jolly forum. > [@](#): > > I for the time being, will take the high road and reemphasize my original argument: > > AMERICANS, IN GENERAL, IN MY OPINION, ARE LAZY, SPOILED WHINERS, FOR THE REASONS STATED ABOVE! “ME PUTTING THIS IN CAPS DOESN’T MANE IT ANY MORE TRUE than if I were to undo caps. In fact, it draws attention to the fact that I have no argument.” Replace all 2nd person pronouns with 1st person in that paragraph and see what you find. So what it comes down to is that you’re whining about whining. Pot, meet your friend Kettle. You’ll want to discuss things, I’m sure. > [@](#): > > You jackasses. Booo-Ring. ---
**Author:** ![Spritle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Spritle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spritle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/26 "2001-05-29T20:17:32Z")
While it’s so easy to pile on, I’ll eschew the temptation. Perhaps I’m the only one, but I read the article in your link. **TUS** , I get your point, and agree to an extent. It is frustrating when you see (hear, read) people making bad choices. I mean leasing a vehicle for $650 a month when you’re bringing home a little over $1,000 a week just isn’t fiscally responsible. And a family of four eating out for around $100 is bordering ludicrous - **as far as I’m concerned**. Others’ MMV. Mrs. Spritle and I make within the neighborhood of this family, but we certainly don’t spend like they do. In reading the article, however, I didn’t get the feeling that the family was particularly whining. The closest was the expected anger that the Mrs. felt at the way the layoffs were handled. I can empathasize. It isn’t exactly whining. Your point, though a bit lost, is somewhat exemplified by the spending habits of the people, if not by the tone of the article. They seemed to have the attitude (during the good times) that there would always be good times and that their spending should rise to meet or exceed income. The article said he was “on his way” to earning $70,000. Spending on that is just betting on the pot. I think you have a point that many people spend like there is no tomorrow. Sure, Bill Gates is not likely to lose all net worth any time soon, but for many, they don’t have that luxury. Unfortunately, many people, regardless of income, overspend - blame credit cards if you wish. To sum: - I’m not sure if the article was the best support of your arguements. - Your point (personal belief) has merit. - you could have done a bit better job composing your rant to nip the “hair splitter” responses. In all, I’d give it 6.5 if it’s a first effort, 6.0 if not. 😉 Incidentally, **Monster104** , your statement: > [@](#): > > That sir, makes you the dope. should read: That\*\*,\*\* sir, makes you the dope. (bold comma added) Since you are addressing **TUS** you must completely separate the appelation with commas. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/27 "2001-05-29T21:42:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > You know, I forgot how _immature_ some of the people on this MB are. I for the time being, **will take the high road** … > > _You jackasses._ (Emphasis mine.) TUS, you’ve really gotta stop torturing the Irony Gods like that. You _know_ they’ve got a low humor threshold anyway, and when you drop little gems like those on them, they nearly bust a gut laughing. One of them had to have oxygen during his outburst to avoid fainting. Have some compassion, for God’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/28 "2001-05-29T21:42:40Z")
Elapsed time from “I’m done responding” to next response: 37 minutes. Very, very unfortunate; the kind of blunder that would ruin even a good routine. An electronic forum rant, be it bulletin board code or usenet, is an organic whole, taking in both the OP and the poster’s demeanor subsequent to it. A robust OP on its own, the kind impenetrable to the round of heckling from the judges–the kind that this thread’s is not–is a fine thing. But an equal high score may also be gained by a flawed initial rant, that makes up for what it lacks in robustness by agility and skill. Unfortunately, this is lacking as well, and the true score-killer is the sadly-common “I’m done here no wait I’m back!” follow-up technique drops the score by two to three points, so I’ll have to disagree with judge **Spritle** and give it only a **3.0**. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/29 "2001-05-29T23:56:16Z")
If the whiner lives in Palmdale and works in West L.A. (that’s about a 50 mile commute one-way) because he couldn’t afford any closer or better housing, he can be responsible and choose a fuel-efficient car, but the rise in gas prices is still going to hurt. And I think he has a right to whine. We always hear about how much we consume in this country, and rightly so, but it’s only fair to recall that much of the consumption is systemic rather than voluntary. That said, I don’t agree with the anti-urban aesthetic that has shaped much of post-WWII American popular culture, because I think it is this which has compelled so many of us to spread out as we have without regard to the cost on the environment, or our personal sanity. I’m happy to say that I live in town myself, and I enjoy it, but if I had children to raise and had to worry about the public schools, I might have moved out to the 'burbs. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/30 "2001-05-30T00:21:19Z")
> [@](#): > > had you argued your point like a GENTLEMAN or a LADY, whichever might apply, I might not have even responded, since it had valid points. Unfortunately your logic was obscured by your rhetoric. If you want a civil debate, go to GD. This is the pit. You posted a weak, stupid rant. I called you on it. > [@](#): > > My OP did NOT contain any personal attacks at other Dopers; your the one that sunk to that low level Your OP only contained a load of bullshit and ignorance. If you feel my personal attacks were unjustified, TOUGH SHIT. I call them as I see them, and from your OP I felt you were being an arrogant prick. > [@](#): > > for the time being, will take the high road and reemphasize my original argument: > > AMERICANS, IN GENERAL, IN MY OPINION, ARE LAZY, SPOILED WHINERS, FOR THE REASONS STATED ABOVE This wasn’t your original statement. You’re original statements were: > [@](#): > > I’m sick of all you American wusses whining… > [@](#): > > fat, lazy spoiled Americans And your title itself: “America: A Nation of Whiners”. So, if you’re changing your stance in the OP from a statement of fact to your own opinion, we’ve made progress. If you’re trying to backtrack, than you’re being an idiot. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/31 "2001-05-30T00:55:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > \*\*You jackasses. \*\* Again, **Scapedude** , you make generalizations, the people of Straight Dope who posted in this thread are not jackasses, because, I’m the jackass. You, it seems, are a whiner, oh make that an arrogant whiner, who can’t stand the fact that other people don’t lay down and just accept that what you say is the truth. The op was your personal opinion, which you have every right to state. However, it was full of generalizations and you were called on it. Don’t post in the Pit if you are not prepared to face the music. Be prepared to have your posts dissected and fed back to you, showing where you erred. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the Pit. Oh, uh, btw, where exactly is this gas station that has $1.70 a gallon gas, I need to fill up. I work a blue collar job, and I like to find any deals I can. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/32 "2001-05-30T01:13:11Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* \*\* > [@](#): > > You know what, I’m done responding top you dopes and morons. I dont feel like getting accused of being a troll, so I’m just going to sit back and allow people like you to make idiotic statements like the one above and expose yourselves for the nitwits that you are.\*\* As I see it: You have no argument to the post to which you were responding, so you’ve decided to get self-righteous. What was so idiotic about **Cartooniverse’s** statements? You didn’t address the arguments at all, you’re running from them. Put up or fuck off. And you didn’t want to be a troll? Maybe you should have thought about that before making a insulting generalized remarks about Americans on a message board based in America. What were you expecting? Everyone to join in and agree that Americans are fat, lazy, whiners? Yes, there are idiots in this country, we aren’t taking offense to that. The offense is taken when you put forth the idea that this is the norm instead of the exception. \*\* > [@](#): > > As a matter of fact, had you argued your point like a GENTLEMAN or a LADY, whichever might apply, I might not have even responded, since it had valid points.\*\* Hey, look who’s back already! You want a civlized discussion, go to Great Debates. This is the Pit, where gentlemen and ladies do not tread. \*\* > [@](#): > > My OP did NOT contain any personal attacks at other Dopers; your the one that sunk to that low level.\*\* No, your OP contained an attack on an entire nation, judging all for the actions of some. I checked your profile, where are you from **TUS** that your country is so free from narrow-minded whiners? Oh wait, that can’t be true of every citizen in your country, because obviously you live there. \*\* > [@](#): > > a. continue to participate in the thread, put up with name calling, and respond in kind, which would then turn me into a troll since it would be ME making multiple posts attacking people OR\*\* Defending yourself does not make you a troll. Being a jerk makes you a troll. Don’t be so quick to climb on the cross. We’ll do the crucifying for you when the time comes. \*\* > [@](#): > > b. Point made, back out gracefully and allow everyone to post comments like the one above, and read how I’m a “child” and a “crybaby” because I won’t allow myself to be dragged down into their personal hell.\*\* Point made? What the hell was your point, that you are condemning an entire nation of people because you don’t agree with the lifestyle of some of them? You stated an inflammatory opinion here and then wish to run away. So what is your point? That your a cowardly fuckloop who can’t finish what he started? Now earlier, you stated **"I’m NOT busting on blue collar families where the husband and wife are struggling to make ends meet, driving a beat up car, and can barely afford to feed their kids."** Now you state: **"AMERICANS, IN GENERAL, IN MY OPINION, ARE LAZY, SPOILED WHINERS, FOR THE REASONS STATED ABOVE!"** Do you not realize, most Americans are blue-collar workers driving older model cars? Or do you only respect the dirt poor Americans struggling every day, and not the middle-class Americans who aren’t exactly struggling, but are still living paycheck-to-paycheck? What about the self-made American millionaires who scrimp and saved to get to where they are in life? This country is not rich or poor, there are many teirs in between. Your generalization shows your ignorance and your responses in this thread thus far only show your cowardice and immaturity. BTW, I love how you claim to take the high road then end your post by calling the lot of us “jackasses.” You’ve stated your opinion, and you’re entilted to it, but don’t get pissy and start whining when everybody doesn’t join in and start sucking your dick about how right you are. Who’s worse, the crybaby or the whiner who bitches about the crybaby and then becomes a crybaby himself when things don’t go his way? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ultimate_Scapegoat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/33 "2001-05-30T01:49:19Z")
To the Moderator: Before I make half of the posters here my personal bitches, I want to state that I tried to bow out gracefully and build everyone else on this thread a Golden Bridge. However, a few of the Dopers here, like the cowards that they are, thinking I was gone, have chosen to CONTINUE their personal attacks, thinking I wouldn’t respond. They have also admitted that since this is the BBQ pit, anything goes. Sooo . . if that is the way it’s going to be, at the risk of being accused of a troll, anything I say from here on out is out of self-defense: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > > Recess must have just let out. > > I think you’re off by about four hours, TUS. > \*\* You right, I was off. Recess started with YOUR contribution. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > This is exactly what I mean. Frankly, Monster I had no problem with your argument until you told me “take my head out of my ass.” > > This is the pit. If you can’t take name-calling or you don’t like it, feel free to leave. We call them as we see them.\*\* Please refer to the above statement. I didn’t realize the Pit was open for personal attacks before. I hope you can take your own medicine, tough guy. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Unfortunately your logic was obscured by your rhetoric. > > Whereas you didn’t need to worry about rhetoric, as there was nothing for yours to obscure.\*\* Actually, I made some valid points with my OP mixed in with a lot of rhetoric. I’m waitng for Valid Point #1 from you. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > YOU are the one who lowered the debate to the lowest common denominator, not me. > > You ARE the lowest common denominator . . . Goodbye!\*\* That line became passe faster than your post. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > a. \ > > > > b. \ > > \*\* You know, it took me a while to figure out how to use the “quote” function too, don’t feel bad. \*\* > [@](#): > > Two things, TUS. Firstly: > > 1. I did trash service for work today. Five hours of it or so. And the only thing that was more putrid than your “arguments” so far was the garbage, mostly meat, of a catering service. It almost made me vomit. A friend of mine literally turned green.\*\* I can tell you are now on trash duty for the SDMB. Your very good at “trashing” people. By the way, somehow I’m not suprised you work with garbage all day wrong- it shows in your writing. \*\* > [@](#): > > 1. As I said, it’s the pit. Don’t like it? Feel free to fuck off and go hang in a more happy-jolly forum.\*\* I rest on your face. Again, please refer to the top of this reply to your babbling drivel. Oh, nice language by the way. I see garbage comes out of your mouth as well as your keyboard. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I for the time being, will take the high road and reemphasize my original argument: > > > > AMERICANS, IN GENERAL, IN MY OPINION, ARE LAZY, SPOILED WHINERS, FOR THE REASONS STATED ABOVE! > > “ME PUTTING THIS IN CAPS DOESN’T MANE IT ANY MORE TRUE than if I were to undo caps. In fact, it draws attention to the fact that I have no argument.”\*\* Really? I think it works very well. Here’s an example: “IAMPUNHA IS A DOPE!” Oh, and the word is “mean”, not “mane” by the way. \*\* > [@](#): > > Replace all 2nd person pronouns with 1st person in that paragraph and see what you find.\*\* I know I know, everything I say bounces off me and sticks to you. Frankly for some reason I don’t remember as much from second grade as you. \*\* > [@](#): > > So what it comes down to is that you’re whining about whining. Pot, meet your friend Kettle. You’ll want to discuss things, I’m sure.\*\* In your case, it’s Dumb, Meet Dumber. You so missed the point of my OP and it’s clear you have no clue. Why don’t you just do all of us a favor and please go away. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > You jackasses. > > Booo-Ring. \*\* My thoughts exactly when I read what you had to say. Who’s next? ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/34 "2001-05-30T01:58:49Z")
May I suggest, TUS, that you work a bit on your reading comprehension? impunha’s typo wasn’t for “mean.” If you put “mean” in the sentence where “mane” is, the sentence makes no sense. Try “make.” As in, “TUS makes an ass of him/herself.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/35 "2001-05-30T02:05:25Z")
Who’s next? Yeah, now things are gettin’ good when people start making Goldberg references. When are you gonna start makin’ people your personal bitches? Because if that’s all you got, you must try harder. **The Ultimate Scapegoat** , you just keep posting, because youse gittin’ funnier with every post. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/36 "2001-05-30T02:05:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > **However, a few of the Dopers here, like the cowards that they are, thinking I was gone, have chosen to CONTINUE their personal attacks, thinking I wouldn’t respond.** We’ve seen your kind before, **Scapegoat**. We all knew you’d be back. You still have avoided the task of defending your statements by focusing soley on the personal attacks, which BTW, are lame even by a grade-school standard. This does nothing to support your grossly generalized statements about the American people. How about you mention something about the points raised by these other posters? If what they say is idiotic (which you have claimed at least once that I recall) how about you tell us why. Your opinion does not make it so. While defending yourself may be allowed, an argument of the issues at hand is still expected. You have dodged all attacks on your OP by focusing on your martyr complex and making _ad hominem_ attacks of your own. And don’t mention this bullshit about how you tried to do the noble thing and bow out gracefully. You started this thread and then tried to run away when things didn’t go your way. I, for one, would like to see you address the points made by these other posters as opposed to your feeble attempts at flames. And for someone who consistantly fucked up the use of apostrophes in the OP and the whole your/you’re concept seems to be lost on you, maybe you should try to steer clear of correcting other people’s typos. I also notice that you post more than a half hour after my last post, yet have nothing to say on it. Did I use words that were too big for you to comprehend? I made some points in my last post which I would like to see addressed by you. ---
**Author:** ![Amedeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Amedeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amedeus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/37 "2001-05-30T02:26:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > You must be a real hoot at parties. \*\* ::Peers intently:: This sounds familar. Something a poster along time ago said to DavidB. Well schuck boy, this aint a frickin party. You want a party go to [Beer.com](http://Beer.com) or something. And take your sockpuppet with you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ultimate_Scapegoat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/38 "2001-05-30T02:55:57Z")
Oh yeah! How can we forget about the Instigator herself, Monster Crap Magnet? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monster104 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > You obviously don’t watch the news > > Actually, quite the contrary. However, I do not use the news as my means for determining what Americans are like. See, news stations and newspapers are businesses geared to make money, and will only report on what they think will spur interest in their service and thus potentially increase revenue. > > I get to know how people think by talking to lots of different people, not having the news tell me who Americans are. > \*\* That’s all well and great. Now, with all that BRILLIANT research, can you PLEASE tell me HOW YOU determine the mindset of the American people at large? For example, I DO IT by reading, watching the news and making an EDUCATED GUESS as to what I think it is. I hear and see Americans with their cell phone, toys etc, whining and complaining they want more. That was my point, but of course, since you have nothing better to do, you choose to ATTEMPT to pick apart my argument with High School Debate Club tactics that frankly I find very boring. Either that or I touched a nerve with my OP? Why don’t you just come clean and let me know which it is? > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Oh, so it’s okay for you and me to make a buck, but no one else? I love that argument. Rich people suck! > > Having a price of gas determined by supply/demand instead of price gouging by foreign oil providers is not simply you and I making a buck. \*\* You call it price gouging, I call it good capitalism. Who’s using rhetoric now? > [@](#): > > \*\* > And why, exactly, do rich people suck? Because they have more money than most others? Well, if they earned it, I have no problem with them.\*\* I didn’t say rich people suck. Again another debate club tactic- you take everything I say out of context and turn it around against me. I was putting those words in the mouths of Americans who begrudge companies making any money. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Huh? Check unemployment rates lately? I deal with contractors all day long that can’t find help for hard, labor intensive jobs. > > Did you even read my statement? I said “most people don’t have cushy, high-paying jobs”. If most people don’t have such jobs, then why do you generalize Americans as whining about this jobs?\*\* Actually right now, I’d say most Americans DO have pretty nice jobs, or at the very least get well paid for the sucky ones. And certainly, wages and work conditions here in the good old USofA are much much better than those of many third world countries, which is why all those Mexicans keep coming up here. Again, MOST, not all. I’m not going to sit here and debate percentages- after all, polls are unreliable, right Chief? > [@](#): > > \*\* > About contractors not having enough workers: In some areas, that may be true. However, the contractor I used to work for has 2 or 3 people waiting for spots to open for hire, so your point isn’t how it is everywhere.\*\* Right. So now we are going to base your argument on the small area where YOU live, while I prefer to base my conclusions on America on what I see nationwide. Do you have anything else to offer? > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Goodie for California. As for politicians, every state has the government it deserves. > > > > Again, it’s okay for you make a buck, but when corporations do, it’s greed. Can you say “class envy”? > > :rolleyes: > > So, because I’m opposed to foreign-oil price gouging, I have “class envy”? Do you even know what the hell you’re talking about?\*\* Again, you call it gouging. I call it free market capitalism. If you want to play with semantics, why don’t you go play Scrabble? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Corporate greed is FAR different from me wanting to have fair prices on gas. If you cannot see the difference, than you’re even less logical than I thought.\*\* Yep there we go again, “greed”, “gouging”. You know you are such an idiot I don’t even know why I’m debating this trivia with you except top point out what a stupid moron you really are. I’m tired of debating semantics with you! You wouldn’t stick to the point if you were impaled on it! > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Please don’t turn this into an ideological argument and label me. You know what I’m talking about: Americans wanting their government to take care of them instead of helping themselves > > I know more people that DON’T want the government to take care of them than people that DO. \*\* Well, is that a “generalization” or is that from talking to the drunks at the corner bar you hang out in each night? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Again, I assert than generalizing how Americans think is very ignorant, and I think you should stop making such generalizations.\*\* How about this for a generalization: “I think you are a dope!” > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > That’s why this past presidential race had so many undecideds. Because Americans could not figure out which candidate is Santa Claus. Polls and newspaper articles give me a pretty good generalization as to what the American mindset is > > This past presidential election had so many undecideds for WAY different reasons. \*\* Trust me, I know. I don’t want to start a different thread here, but if you watched the debates, which as evidenced by your pointless drivel you did not, it was “I am going to give old people this . . I’m going to spend this much on education.” I stick by my statement: the election was about which candidate was Santa Claus, and they were so close on so many issues for that reason, there were many undecided voters. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Oh, and polls and newspaper articles are mostly skewed or manipulated in some way, and are not an accurate representation of everyone.\*\* Granted, but they remain the most reliable instrument available of public opinion. I guess I can never use the media or polls as a resource since they will never, ever be 100% perfect. So, in that case, until that day comes, we’ll just rely on the opinions you get from polling the whinos that sleep on your front step. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > I guess since you are not telepathic either, I guess you will NEVER be entitled to make comments on what other people are thinking, right? > > Are you truly that dense? I have no qualms with people making comments on what an INDIVIDUAL thinks, because it is possible to know or have a very good idea of what that one person is thinking. However, to do the same for a large, diversified group of people is ignorant, arrogant, and incorrect.\*\* We already debated this point. This is really getting tedious, do you have any more? [quote] \*\* > [@](#): > > That was a good retort. Well thought out. And very classy. > > Did you think of that all by yourself, genius? > > > [@](#): > > > > :rolleyes:\*\* > > Oh, the old “smiley face “ comeback. Read: I can’t think of a reply. So I’ll just > paste a smiley face. > > Guess I got you on that one, huh? > > \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Monster104 \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > had you argued your point like a GENTLEMAN or a LADY, whichever might apply, I might not have even responded, since it had valid points. Unfortunately your logic was obscured by your rhetoric. > > > > If you want a civil debate, go to GD. This is the pit. You posted a weak, stupid rant. I called you on it.\*\* > > \*\* I posted an entertaining, albeit over the top statement. You, having nothing better to do in your pathetic life, decided to pick it apart word for word, rather than argue the main point. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > My OP did NOT contain any personal attacks at other Dopers; your the one that sunk to that low level > > Your OP only contained a load of bullshit and ignorance. If you feel my personal attacks were unjustified, TOUGH SHIT. I call them as I see them, and from your OP I felt you were being an arrogant prick.\*\* That’s real nice language there pal. You really come across as a true intellectual when you use those words. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > for the time being, will take the high road and reemphasize my original argument: > > > > AMERICANS, IN GENERAL, IN MY OPINION, ARE LAZY, SPOILED WHINERS, FOR THE REASONS STATED ABOVE > > This wasn’t your original statement. \*\* It was a pretty good representation of what it was. I mean, are you sure you have NOTHING better to do than diagram my sentences? > [@](#): > > \*\* > You’re original statements were: > > > [@](#): > > > > I’m sick of all you American wusses whining… > > > [@](#): > > > > fat, lazy spoiled Americans > > And your title itself: “America: A Nation of Whiners”.\*\* Let’s see: 1. AMERICANS, IN GENERAL, IN MY OPINION, ARE LAZY, SPOILED WHINERS 2. America: A Nation of Whiners 3. I’m sick of all you American wusses whining…fat, lazy spoiled Americans Hmmm let’s see . . . yeah you know, you are SO right, and I am so wrong! There is a HUGE difference between all THREE of those statements! Wow, you are truly a genius!!! > [@](#): > > \*\* > So, if you’re changing your stance in the OP from a statement of fact to your own opinion, we’ve made progress. If you’re trying to backtrack, than you’re being an idiot. Which is it? \*\* I’ll tell you which it is, nitwit. It’s arrogant self-important nerds like you that I can’t stand. Don’t try and confuse me with your petty logic and semantics- you’ll just make yourself look totally foolish just like I did to you here, so why don’t you just quit while you are ahead and go back to downloading Internet porn? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/39 "2001-05-30T03:02:03Z")
Ladies and gentlemen, for your viewing pleasure, The Ultimate Scapegoat! Another sterling example of someone who can’t stand the heat, but insists on living in a kiln. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/40 "2001-05-30T03:11:10Z")
I’m almost expecting him/her/it to say “Score!!”. :rolleyes: Now, as soon as I finish wading through his/her/its’ load of crap, I’ll post again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891.md?page=3)