# America: A NATION OF WHINERS!!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2001, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891 "2001-05-29T14:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ultimate_Scapegoat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/41 "2001-05-30T03:25:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > > **However, a few of the Dopers here, like the cowards that they are, thinking I was gone, have chosen to CONTINUE their personal attacks, thinking I wouldn’t respond.** > > We’ve seen your kind before, **Scapegoat**. We all knew you’d be back. \*\* I know. And you love it. Admit it. \*\* > [@](#): > > You still have avoided the task of defending your statements by focusing soley on the personal attacks, which BTW, are lame even by a grade-school standard. \*\* Actually, I didn’t start the personal attacks, but I think I HAVE debated the issue very well here. I’m sorry my deabting tactics don’t live up to your high standards. \*\* > [@](#): > > This does nothing to support your grossly generalized statements about the American people. How about you mention something about the points raised by these other posters?\*\* As soon as I read one valid point, you’ll be the first to know. \*\* > [@](#): > > If what they say is idiotic (which you have claimed at least once that I recall) how about you tell us why. Your opinion does not make it so. > While defending yourself may be allowed, an argument of the issues at hand is still expected. \*\* Are you like RELATED to the other posters here? I HAVE BEEN DEBATING THE ISSUES HERE, you MORON! Just because I respond to a personal insult with a personal insult doesn’t mean I’m avoiding the issues. \*\* > [@](#): > > You have dodged all attacks on your OP by focusing on your martyr complex and making _ad hominem_ attacks of your own. \*\* What is this- the People’s Court? I know I know. It’s okay for your Doper buddies to trash me, but when I return the favor, I’m the Ahole. \*\* > [@](#): > > And don’t mention this bullshit about how you tried to do the noble thing and bow out gracefully. You started this thread and then tried to run away when things didn’t go your way.\*\* I started this thread and saw what Monster and some of the others were turning it into by telling me to “pull my head out of my ass”, and I decided I had enough. Monster started with the issues, but then his argument degenerated into cheap shots. “So, when you get your ignorant head out of your arrogant ass, let me know” I think was the first flame thrown here, and not by me. But after I left, they continued to be children, and I’m not going to take it. So . . .Why don’t you just shut your flycatcher and read the whole damn thread before opening you yap? \*\* > [@](#): > > I, for one, would like to see you address the points made by these other posters as opposed to your feeble attempts at flames.\*\* I just did. And trust me, when I flame nitwits such yourself, it is anything but feeble. \*\* > [@](#): > > And for someone who consistantly fucked up the use of apostrophes in the OP and the whole your/you’re concept seems to be lost on you, maybe you should try to steer clear of correcting other people’s typos.\*\* There’s a big difference between me missing a typo and someone who is calling me an idiot and missing an entire word. \*\* > [@](#): > > I also notice that you post more than a half hour after my last post, yet have nothing to say on it. Did I use words that were too big for you to comprehend? I made some points in my last post which I would like to see addressed by you. \*\* Wow. You actually are sitting there on your computer waiting for me to repsond to your posts, aren’t you? That’s actually kind of scary. You might want to see a professional about that. Don’t worry. If I decide any more of your filth is worthy of my reply, I’ll be sure to destroy you there as well. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/42 "2001-05-30T03:37:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > **Now, with all that BRILLIANT research, can you PLEASE tell me HOW YOU determine the mindset of the American people at large? For example, I DO IT by reading, watching the news and making an EDUCATED GUESS as to what I think it is. I hear and see Americans with their cell phone, toys etc, whining and complaining they want more.** Well, with all that reading you do to come to these “educated guesses” you should have no problem backing up your hypothesis with a site instead of the same opinionated crap you’ve been spewing. \*\* > [@](#): > > You call it price gouging, I call it good capitalism. Who’s using rhetoric now?\*\* If it isn’t price-gouging, please offer up some evdience to show how you came to that conclusion. > [@](#): > > **I didn’t say rich people suck. Again another debate club tactic- you take everything I say out of context and turn it around against me. I was putting those words in the mouths of Americans who begrudge companies making any money.** So then you just made that statement up and attributed it to Americans? You say you put it in the Americans’ mouths yourself. In short, Americans never said that either, you’re guilty of the crime you charge **Monster104** of committing. > [@](#): > > **Actually right now, I’d say most Americans DO have pretty nice jobs, or at the very least get well paid for the sucky ones. > \ > Again, MOST, not all. I’m not going to sit here and debate percentages- after all, polls are unreliable, right Chief?** It seems you’re not here to debate anything, as you have dodged my posts and have offered up only one article as ‘evidence’ for your conclusions. > [@](#): > > **You wouldn’t stick to the point if you were impaled on it!** Says the poster who has dodged all of my posts and when questioned on his stance said he’d run away only to return. Right, we’re supposed to take this statement seriously when it comes from you. > [@](#): > > \*\*How about this for a generalization: > > “I think you are a dope!” > \*\* Further showing his idiocy, **Scapegoat** offers up as an example of generalization and attack on a specific person. Obviously, his head is so far up his ass that the lack of oxygen is affecting his reasoning skills. > [@](#): > > \*\*Trust me, I know. \*\* That you know anything has yet to be seen. You made a statement, back it up. You’ve given us no reason to trust anything you say to be true. Granted, but they remain the most reliable instrument available of public opinion. I guess I can never use the media or polls as a resource since they will never, ever be 100% perfect. So, in that case, until that day comes, we’ll just rely on the opinions you get from polling the whinos that sleep on your front step. > [@](#): > > **I have no qualms with people making comments on what an INDIVIDUAL thinks, because it is possible to know or have a very good idea of what that one person is thinking. However, to do the same for a large, diversified group of people is ignorant, arrogant, and incorrect.** We already debated this point. This is really getting tedious, do you have any more?\*\* [/quote] Dodging the point made by **Monster104** here, **Scapegoat**. What kind of chicken-shit tactic is that? > [@](#): > > \*\*I posted an entertaining, albeit over the top statement. \*\* Entertaining to whom? No one hears seems to have found it very entertaining, thus proving that your opinion on a matter does not make it true. You admit it is over-the-top however. Are you admitting you were wrong to make such a generalization? \*\* > [@](#): > > That’s real nice language there pal. You really come across as a true intellectual when you use those words.\*\* Oh grow the fuck up asshole. Attacking someone’s language in the Pit is not going to win you any brownie points. You have no argument, so you’re just attacking the only thing you can. > [@](#): > > \*\*Don’t try and confuse me with your petty logic and semantics- you’ll just make yourself look totally foolish just like I did to you here, so why don’t you just quit while you are ahead and go back to downloading Internet porn? \*\* Yeah, **Monster104** quit trying to confuse him, he’s fucked up enough as it is. And **Scapegoat** - do you realize how stupid you sound telling **Monster104** that you made him look foolish when I doubt many others would agree. You’re the only person who seems to think you’re winning this argument. If your next post is followed up with “SCORE!!!” I’m going to laugh my balls off. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/43 "2001-05-30T04:06:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Before I make half of the posters here my personal bitches, I want to state that I tried to bow out gracefully and build everyone else on this thread a Golden Bridge. Except you’re digging your own whole even deeper. > [@](#): > > like the cowards that they are, thinking I was gone, have chosen to CONTINUE their personal attacks, thinking I wouldn’t respond So, how do you do it? Please tell me your secret of telepathy! I must know how you know what all us Dopers, as well as all us Americans, are thinking. > [@](#): > > Insert lame ranting and attempted insults against **iampunha** here It sounds like someone needs a nap. > [@](#): > > Oh yeah! How can we forget about the Instigator herself, Monster Crap Magnet? Himself. And ow. He called me a Crap Magnet. Oh, the horror! > [@](#): > > Now, with all that BRILLIANT research, can you PLEASE tell me HOW YOU determine the mindset of the American people at large? For example, I DO IT by reading, watching the news and making an EDUCATED GUESS as to what I think it is So, watching the news is now considered “brilliant” research? Please. Educated guesses require a semblance of intelligience, an area in which you appear to be seriously lacking in. > [@](#): > > You call it price gouging, I call it good capitalism. Who’s using rhetoric now? I have a simple question: Do you understand what either capitalism or rhetoric means? [quote] I didn’t say rich people suck. Again another debate club tactic- you take everything I say out of context and turn it around against me. I was putting those words in the mouths of Americans who begrudge companies making any money. [quote] So, you didn’t say “Oh, so it’s okay for you and me to make a buck, but no one else? I love that argument. **Rich people suck!** ”? How did I take that out of context? Because you were “putting those words in the mouths of Americans who begrudge companies making any money”? I think you’re lying and trying to weasel your way out of the mess you got yourself into. > [@](#): > > Again, MOST, not all. I’m not going to sit here and debate percentages- after all, polls are unreliable, right Chief? In other words, you have no real evidence to back up your statements. Or are you going to take my claim that most polls are skewed one way or another to mean that all polls are? > [@](#): > > Right. So now we are going to base your argument on the small area where YOU live, while I prefer to base my conclusions on America on what I see nationwide No, you prefer to make statements based on you’re own ignorance, and make opinionated statements like they’re facts. Real intelligence there, folks. > [@](#): > > Again, you call it gouging. I call it free market capitalism. If you want to play with semantics, why don’t you go play Scrabble Again, do you know what capitalism means? And you do know that Scrabble has absolutely NOTHING to do with semantics, right? > [@](#): > > You know you are such an idiot I don’t even know why I’m debating this trivia with you except top point out what a stupid moron you really are. I’m tired of debating semantics with you! You wouldn’t stick to the point if you were impaled on it “I’m talking out of my ass! You’re stupid! And and and, I don’t argue with stupid-heads!” :rolleyes: You haven’t MADE one single valid point yet. Every single one of your posts is so full of asinine bullshit that even if you DID have a point, it gets lost in a mire of ignorance, idiocy, and closed-minded opinions! Hardly an effective form of debate, and an even worse way of communication. > [@](#): > > Well, is that a “generalization” or is that from talking to the drunks at the corner bar you hang out in each night? “You know you are such an idiot I don’t even know why I’m debating this trivia with you except top point out what a stupid moron you really are.” > [@](#): > > How about this for a generalization: > > “I think you are a dope!” How old are you? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Trust me, I know It’s not very apparent. > [@](#): > > which as evidenced by your pointless drivel you did not I’ll simply refer to the OP if you want to see pointless drivel. [quote] I guess I can never use the media or polls as a resource since they will never, ever be 100% perfect [quote] No, you just need to realize that a cite might be skewed. > [@](#): > > So, in that case, until that day comes, we’ll just rely on the opinions you get from polling the whinos that sleep on your front step. “You know you are such an idiot I don’t even know why I’m debating this trivia with you except top point out what a stupid moron you really are.” > [@](#): > > We already debated this point. No we didn’t. So far, you haven’t debated ANYTHING. > [@](#): > > I posted an entertaining, albeit over the top statement So, just how many people in here found it entertaining? I did! I laughed at the sheer idiocy of it all. > [@](#): > > Oh, the old “smiley face “ comeback. Read: I can’t think of a reply. So I’ll just > paste a smiley face. “You know you are such an idiot I don’t even know why I’m debating this trivia with you except top point out what a stupid moron you really are.” > [@](#): > > That’s real nice language there pal. You really come across as a true intellectual when you use those words And we’ve just seen _so_ much of you’re intelligence (or lack thereof) To quote one of my favorite (banned) posters: “Pot? Kettle? Whatever.” > [@](#): > > Let’s see: > > 1. AMERICANS, IN GENERAL, IN MY OPINION, ARE LAZY, SPOILED WHINERS > 2. America: A Nation of Whiners > 3. I’m sick of all you American wusses whining…fat, lazy spoiled Americans > > Hmmm let’s see . . . yeah you know, you are SO right, and I am Let’s see, one of them is stated as an opinion, the others are stated as fact. Yep, pretty big difference there. > [@](#): > > I’ll tell you which it is, nitwit. It’s arrogant self-important nerds like you that I can’t stand. Don’t try and confuse me with your petty logic and semantics- you’ll just make yourself look totally foolish just like I did to you here, so why don’t you just quit while you are ahead and go back to downloading Internet porn? “That’s real nice language there pal. You really come across as a true intellectual when you use those words. You know you are such an idiot I don’t even know why I’m debating this trivia with you except top point out what a stupid moron you really are.” ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/44 "2001-05-30T04:11:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > > \*\*We’ve seen your kind before, **Scapegoat**. We all knew you’d be back. \*\* > > I know. And you love it. Admit it.\*\* It does help the night go by more quickly when I’m stuck at work. OF course, so would masturbating with a cheese grater, but I wouldn’t enjoy that either. \*\* > [@](#): > > Actually, I didn’t start the personal attacks, but I think I HAVE debated the issue very well here. I’m sorry my deabting tactics don’t live up to your high standards.\*\* True, you didn’t start personal flames, you started sweeping generalizing flames. And since you’ve offered up jack shit to support any of your claims, you haven’t debated well at all, regardless of what you think. \*\* > [@](#): > > Are you like RELATED to the other posters here? I HAVE BEEN DEBATING THE ISSUES HERE, you MORON! Just because I respond to a personal insult with a personal insult doesn’t mean I’m avoiding the issues.\*\* Most of the posts with the insults also have something to say about the topic at hand. Your post, however, beginning with the laughable line, “Before I make half of the posters here my personal bitches, I want to state that I tried to bow out gracefully and build everyone else on this thread a Golden Bridge.” is nothing but personal attacks having nothing to do with the subject at hand. That’s what I was referring to. Sorry if you’re spewing so much bullshit you can’t keep it all straight in your pointy head. \*\* > [@](#): > > I know I know. It’s okay for your Doper buddies to trash me, but when I return the favor, I’m the Ahole.\*\* See above. I was referring to that post. \*\* > [@](#): > > “So, when you get your ignorant head out of your arrogant ass, let me know” I think was the first flame thrown here, and not by me.\*\* On the contrary, the first flame was your OP. You flamed the entire American population. It may not have gotten _personal_ until **Monster104** suggested you could examine your own prostate visually, but don’t claim innocence in the flame department. \*\* > [@](#): > > So . . .Why don’t you just shut your flycatcher and read the whole damn thread before opening you yap?\*\* Actually, my yap is closed. See, unlike you I can both read and type without moving my lips. \*\* > [@](#): > > I just did. And trust me, when I flame nitwits such yourself, it is anything but feeble.\*\* Does this mean you haven’t started flaming yet? Because to me name-calling such as “nitwit” and “dope” is quite feeble and barely worthy of a third grader. \*\* > [@](#): > > Don’t worry. If I decide any more of your filth is worthy of my reply, I’ll be sure to destroy you there as well. \*\* Does this mean you think you’ve destroyed me here? Wow, are you suffering from delusions. You may want to see a professional about that. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/45 "2001-05-30T05:33:40Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by He Who Speaks For All Americans, with a plethora of caps, no less_ > **Before I make half of the posters here my personal bitches, I want to state that I tried to bow out gracefully and build everyone else on this thread a Golden Bridge.** Who’s your daddy? (You may now return to your regularly schedule straight-standing position) ---
**Author:** ![Klaatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Klaatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaatu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/46 "2001-05-30T05:58:36Z")
Crunchy, If I might borrow your “masturbating with a cheese grater” line, I bet I could twist it into a great sig. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/47 "2001-05-30T06:50:28Z")
Hey, Scapegoat, would you say that Americans are “poseurs”? ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/48 "2001-05-30T07:02:26Z")
Well, according to [http://poseur.4x4.org/](http://poseur.4x4.org/) Americans are a bunch of poseurs… ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/49 "2001-05-30T09:16:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Fret for your figure and > Fret for your latte and > Fret for your hairpiece and > Fret for your lawsuit and > Fret for your Prozac and > Fret for your pilot and > Fret for your contract and > Fret for your car. > > It’s a > Bullshit three ring circus sideshow of > Freaks > > Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA > The only way to fix it is to flush it all away. > Any fucking time. Any fucking day. > Learn to swim, I’ll see you down in Arizona bay. > \* > > [**Tool** - Ænema](http://www.surftohere.com/html/tool_lyrics_aenima.html) > [sub]© **Tool** 1996[/sub] According to them, it only applies to Californians. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ultimate_Scapegoat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/50 "2001-05-30T12:33:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > > **Now, with all that BRILLIANT research, can you PLEASE tell me HOW YOU . .brilliamce . . their cell phone, toys etc, whining and complaining they want more.** > > Well, with all that reading you do to come to these “educated guesses” you should have no problem backing up your hypothesis with a site instead of the same opinionated crap you’ve been spewing.\*\* Oh, an Internet site. Now THERE’S a reliable source of information. Yeah, every single post I see on the SDMB cites evidence easily linked on the Internet. \*\* > [@](#): > > You call it price gouging, I call it good capitalism. Who’s using rhetoric now?\*\* If it isn’t price-gouging, please offer up some evdience to show how you came to that conclusion.\*\* [/QUOTE] A corporation owns a much needed commodity. Because of the demand, they set the price. “Price gouging” is a subjective phrase anyway, and is a matter of point of view. Your calls for evidence are becoming shrill. This is a message board, not a term paper. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > **I didn’t say rich people suck. Again another debate club tactic- you take everything I say out of context and turn it around against me. I was putting those words in the mouths of Americans who begrudge companies making any money.** > > So then you just made that statement up and attributed it to Americans? You say you put it in the Americans’ mouths yourself. In short, Americans never said that either, you’re guilty of the crime you charge **Monster104** of committing.\*\* I see you were on the same debate team as Monster. When I said “Rich people suck” I meant it as a statement most Americans make when they think big, rich corporations are taking them for a ride. In other words, and I can’t believe I’m saying this again for your benefit, most Americans think it’s okay for themselves to make a buck off other people, but not the other way around. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > **Actually right now, I’d say most Americans DO have pretty nice jobs, or at the very least get well paid for the sucky ones. > > \ > > Again, MOST, not all. I’m not going to sit here and debate percentages- after all, polls are unreliable, right Chief?** > > It seems you’re not here to debate anything, as you have dodged my posts and have offered up only one article as ‘evidence’ for your conclusions. \*\* Again, I’m not going to sit here and bore everyone with 100 links to boring articles supporting my evidence (and believe me, there are and you damn well know it), just so that geeks like you and Monster can sit here and pick apart every sentence of each article and take them out of context and use them against my argument. I don’t see too many other Dopers putting up links to support their arguments, why should I? \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > **You wouldn’t stick to the point if you were impaled on it!** > > Says the poster who has dodged all of my posts and when questioned on his stance said he’d run away only to return. Right, we’re supposed to take this statement seriously when it comes from you.\*\* I’m responding now, right? \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\*How about this for a generalization: > > “I think you are a dope!” > > \*\* > > Further showing his idiocy, **Scapegoat** offers up as an example of generalization and attack on a specific person. Obviously, his head is so far up his ass that the lack of oxygen is affecting his reasoning skills.\*\* That remark is so assinine that yes, I will avoid it. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\*Trust me, I know. \*\* > > That you know anything has yet to be seen. You made a statement, back it up. You’ve given us no reason to trust anything you say to be true.\*\* This is the BBQ Pit, and I was expressing my heated opinion here in the spirit of the forum. As I was told before, if you want “civil debate”, go to Great Debates. I advise you to do the same. Please go there now and stay there. \*\* > [@](#): > > Granted, but they remain the most reliable instrument available of public opinion. I guess I can never use the media or polls as . . genius . . get from polling the whinos that sleep on your front step. > > > [@](#): > > > > **I have no qualms with people making comments on what an INDIVIDUAL thinks, because it is possible to know or have a very good idea of what that one person is thinking. However, to do the same for a large, diversified group of people is ignorant, arrogant, and incorrect.** > > We already debated this point. > This is really getting tedious, do you have any more?\*\* Dodging the point made by **Monster104** here, **Scapegoat**. What kind of chicken-shit tactic is that?\*\* [/QUOTE] Actually, I interrupted Monster in the middle of his argument to respond. After I did, he repeated his point. Why go around in circles? I know that’s a favorite tactic that people of your ilk use, but I’m not falling for it. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\*I posted an entertaining, albeit over the top statement. \*\* > > Entertaining to whom? No one hears seems to have found it very entertaining, thus proving that your opinion on a matter does not make it true.\*\* 48 replies. I guess SOMEONE finds me entertaining. \*\* > [@](#): > > You admit it is over-the-top however. Are you admitting you were wrong to make such a generalization?\*\* You know, you are such a dope. What I am trying to point out is that it is possible to make an OPINION that is based on fact, but ALSO OVER THE TOP. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > That’s real nice language there pal. You really come across as a true intellectual when you use those words.\*\* > > Oh grow the fuck up asshole. Attacking someone’s language in the Pit is not going to win you any brownie points. You have no argument, so you’re just attacking the only thing you can.\*\* I think when you start using foul language when debating a point, it makes the speaker appear to be low class. I am being accused of using rhetoric and attacking people by posters that drop the F bomb all over the thread because they aren’t bright enough to express their views in a civilized manner. Case in point above. \*\* > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\*Don’t try and confuse me with your petty logic and semantics- you’ll just make yourself look totally foolish just like I did to you here, so why don’t you just quit while you are ahead and go back to downloading Internet porn? \*\* > > Yeah, **Monster104 quit trying to confuse him, he’s fucked up enough as it is.** I simply am pointing out that Monster, and you, are completely bypassing the main point of the argument and debating trivialities. If you are so stupid you don’t understand that, then why don’t you just get lost and leave it to us big boys okay? \*\* > [@](#): > > And **Scapegoat** - do you realize how stupid you sound telling **Monster104** that you made him look foolish when I doubt many others would agree. You’re the only person who seems to think you’re winning this argument.\*\* I bet there are others that agree with me. The problem is, they see that I’m being ganged up on by several idiots at one time, see what tactics they use, and are afraid to defend my side for fear of reprisals. Even if that isn’t the case, I don’t care. I’ll take on you, Monster and the entire SDMB if I have to, because I have more sack than either of you two ass clowns combined. \*\* > [@](#): > > If your next post is followed up with “SCORE!!!” I’m going to laugh my balls off. \*\* \*\* [/QUOTE] I would, but you are so easy to punk I’m not going to make this victory count. ---
**Author:** ![Amazing\_Tiki\_God](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/779978/32.png) [@Amazing\_Tiki\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amazing_Tiki_God)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/51 "2001-05-30T12:48:12Z")
> [@](#): > > 48 replies. I guess SOMEONE finds me entertaining. No Scapegoat people are just trying to fight your ignorance but alas it doesn’t look like it is working too well. I guess some forms of idiocy are even too strong fo the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ultimate_Scapegoat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/52 "2001-05-30T12:56:49Z")
Actually Monster, if you really want me to respond to your last post your going to have to do a lot better than that. You came up real small there. I mean, I’ll respond eventually if you want, but not until later because frankly it’s not very good. I find Cruchy a lot more entertaining. But then again I also find watching my fish entertaining too: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by The Ultimate Scapegoat \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > > > \*\*We’ve seen your kind before, **Scapegoat**. We all knew you’d be back. \*\* > > > > I know. And you love it. Admit it. > > \*\* > > It does help the night go by more quickly when I’m stuck at work. OF course, so would masturbating with a cheese grater, but I wouldn’t enjoy that either.\*\* You can actually fit it in one of those holes? \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Actually, I didn’t start the personal attacks, but I think I HAVE debated the issue very well here. I’m sorry my debating tactics don’t live up to your high standards.\*\* > > True, you didn’t start personal flames, you started sweeping generalizing flames.\*\* I don’t consider my OP a flame at all. And even if it was, the forum reads “If you must flame, do it here.” \*\* > [@](#): > > And since you’ve offered up jack shit to support any of your claims, you haven’t debated well at all, regardless of what you think.\*\* Son I knew Jack Shit. He was a friend of mine. And you sir, aren’t Jack Shit! \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Are you like RELATED to the other posters here? I HAVE BEEN DEBATING THE ISSUES HERE, you MORON! Just because I respond to a personal insult with a personal insult doesn’t mean I’m avoiding the issues.\*\* > > Most of the posts with the insults also have something to say about the topic at hand. Your post, however, beginning with the laughable line, “Before I make half of the posters here my personal bitches, I want to state that I tried to bow out gracefully and build everyone else on this thread a Golden Bridge.” is nothing but personal attacks having nothing to do with the subject at hand.\*\* Just responding in kind. Fighting fire with fire. Sorry if you took the “bitch” comment too personally. \*\* > [@](#): > > That’s what I was referring to. Sorry if you’re spewing so much bullshit you can’t keep it all straight in your pointy head.\*\* Actually the top of my head is pretty round. Unfortunately, yours is now flat after sticking it in the cheese grater. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > I know I know. It’s okay for your Doper buddies to trash me, but when I return the favor, I’m the Ahole.\*\* > > See above. I was referring to that post. > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > “So, when you get your ignorant head out of your arrogant ass, let me know” I think was the first flame thrown here, and not by me.\*\* > > On the contrary, the first flame was your OP. You flamed the entire American population. It may not have gotten _personal_ until **Monster104** suggested you could examine your own prostate visually, but don’t claim innocence in the flame department.\*\* I’m not. But I was definitely NOT the first on this thread to shoot a blue light special specifically at another poster. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > So . . .Why don’t you just shut your flycatcher and read the whole damn thread before opening you yap?\*\* > > Actually, my yap is closed. See, unlike you I can both read and type without moving my lips.\*\* I thought your mouth would be wide open, moaning from the cheese grater. That actually was a pretty good one though. Okay, Goat 15, Frog 1. It’s not too late to quite while you can. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > I just did. And trust me, when I flame nitwits such yourself, it is anything but feeble.\*\* > > Does this mean you haven’t started flaming yet? Because to me name-calling such as “nitwit” and “dope” is quite feeble and barely worthy of a third grader.\*\* \*\* [/quote] Well, you are right, I haven’t started flaming you. Because for you, “nitwit” and “dope” are compliments. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Don’t worry. If I decide any more of your filth is worthy of my reply, I’ll be sure to destroy you there as well. \*\* > > Does this mean you think you’ve destroyed me here? Wow, are you suffering from delusions. You may want to see a professional about that. \*\* \*\* [/quote] Pretty much, I do. Keep posting. I enjoy humilating freaks such as yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/53 "2001-05-30T13:06:35Z")
Anybody wanna take bets on how long it’ll be before **The Ultimate Scapegoat** starts a thread on those terrible SUVs? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/54 "2001-05-30T14:21:51Z")
I once saw a poster called cyberian54. I once saw a poster called fatherjohn. I once saw a poster called The Ultimate Scapegoat. I once saw a poster called Monster104. All together now… Three of these things belong together Three of these things are kind of the same Can you guess which one of these doesn’t belong here? Now it’s time to play our game (time to play our game). ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/55 "2001-05-30T14:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay, Goat 15, Frog 1. It’s not too late to quite while you can. Now, where did I see _that_ before? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/56 "2001-05-30T14:53:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually Monster, if you really want me to respond to your last post your going to have to do a lot better than that. You came up real small there. I mean, I’ll respond eventually if you want, but not until later because frankly it’s not very good. In other words: “I have no way to respond to **Monster104** because I’m quickly draining my vocabularly of kindergarten words! I know…I’ll be haughty and say he isn’t WORTH responding to! That’ll show how brilliant I am!” What’s the matter? If you think I’m wrong, why don’t you _prove_ it, bucko? Or, are you still looking for that stick up your ass with your face? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ultimate_Scapegoat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/57 "2001-05-30T15:19:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monster104 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Actually Monster, if you really want me to respond to your last post your going to have to do a lot better than that. You came up real small there. I mean, I’ll respond eventually if you want, but not until later because frankly it’s not very good. > > In other words: “I have no way to respond to **Monster104** because I’m quickly draining my vocabularly of kindergarten words! I know…I’ll be haughty and say he isn’t WORTH responding to! That’ll show how brilliant I am!” > > What’s the matter? If you think I’m wrong, why don’t you _prove_ it, bucko? Or, are you still looking for that stick up your ass with your face? \*\* Wow, I’m dissapointed in you, Monster. I mean, is that all you have left? When this thread started you actually were giving me a run for my money- now it’s down to “looking for that stick up your ass”. Admittedly, not all of my comments are Crossfire material, but I can tell by your writing that you are running out of steam and are degenerating into some really, REALLY juvenile arguments. Look, if I’m getting that under your skin I’ll happily back off! Just say “uncle”! ---
**Author:** ![Protesilaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Protesilaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Protesilaus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/58 "2001-05-30T16:00:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*Anybody wanna take bets on how long it’ll be before **The Ultimate Scapegoat** starts a thread on those terrible SUVs? \*\* I’d say about two days after he starts referring to himself in the third person. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/59 "2001-05-30T18:55:08Z")
I didn’t read, in that article, that the Jesse family wanted the government to “take care of them,” as you so blithely state, “instead of helping themselves.” In fact, I seem to recall reading that Todd Jesse had gone back to school to improve his lot in life. He chose to work for IQE rather than Transistor Devices because of the hour commute and rather than Lucent, initially at least, because he didn’t want to “be a number.” 'Course, he later caved in to peer envy and made the leap for the golden ring, adding $2.81/hour to his worth. Sure, he dropped the pretense of not “be[ing] a number,” he lost his twice weekly free bagels and management concern for employees, but he “knew [he] was worth more.” For a time, the company grew and his hopes were realized. Sure, he “had to wear a hair net, gloves, white smock and protective anti-static bootie,” [sub]thanks for that little tid-bit, BTW[/sub] but man, the good times were there. All the overtime he could handle. Trips for his wife and daughters [sub]apparently nothing for his sons[/sub]. A $650/month car payment\*\*!?!\*\* Sadly, in the span of three months, October to December, the times, they were a’changing and by March, a mere six months after Todd Jesse joined the company, they had to report a loss for Q1 of $148 MM versus a $65 MM profit from Q1 the year before. A month later, Jesse was told to hit the bricks. Donna was “the one who [paid] the bills,” yet she seemed to be the main culprit in racking up the debt. She wants to keep the car, she doesn’t want her girls to have to leave their friends (should the family have to move.) She claims to “[have] a hard time finding reasons for optimism.” I think that it is clear, it’s American women, succubi, all of them, that are responsible for the incredible debt American men are finding themselves saddled with. :rolleyes: [sup]I also think it is clear that Todd Jesse was the rusty cog that jammed the machinery, ruining the cash-machine that was Agere.[/sup] I can, of course, only speak for myself so I’ll say this: [list=1][li]I’m an American[_]I am in the technology sector (certainly not blue-collar, not that there is anything wrong with that)[_]I earn about what it seem this family was at their peak (salary, I’m eligible for O/T, too, but don’t bother)[_]I usually pay with credit cards[_]I have satellite tv service (and a cell phone)[/list=1]Now, am I a “fat, lazy spoiled American?”[/li] I bought my car new. I have an apartment, that (due to my current assignment) I haven’t actually lived in for almost 7 months that runs the better part of $1000/month. I buy what I want, when I want it (be they “GOODIES” like the _Sony Cyber-shot_ I picked up last week or more mundane necessities like a nice suit for work.) It pisses me off that gas prices are as high, relative to recent costs, as they are, but my car gets between 28 and 35 mpg. If I lose my “cushy, high paying job,” I will surely find another shortly thereafter, as I have a Bachelor of Science degree and years of experience in each of a number of fields (manufacturing, Q&A/ISO and tech) but I will be also able to weigh my options because I have enough available cash to manage for upwards of 8 months with zero income before even thinking of selling stock. When changing from the manufacturing and Q&A field to tech, I turned down one job that offered a 26% increase in salary and another, last minute offer, to stay with the company I was leaving for a 10% increase, no mean adjustment, I’ll tell you, and not an easy decision. Not all Americans jump for the larger dollars. Every job offer I’ve accepted has been the lower of at least two but was picked for reasons other than the salary (I wrote about it back in August or September, if you care to look.) Not all Americans spend well beyond their available income. Those that do are fools that, even provided they do not lose their job, would and will find they have to buckle down and reign in such ridiculous spending or face some serious, and harsh, consequences. Consequences like selling your car (or in my sister and B-I-Ls case, their Harley), buying off-brand food for a time, cutting coupons religiously, not taking vacations and for god’s sake: quit eating out all the time! Much like the Jesse family surely will be finding out (if they’re not already.) So, I know you’ve already been out-ed, essentially, for troll-like behavior, but what, really would you like to see here? This isn’t GD, so my, personal, counter example of an American living w/in his means, saving and prospering without whining isn’t a point-counterpoint, and I know that. If you just felt like ranting, well, good for you, you did it. Here’s a bronze star. If you thought no one would take exception to your POV, you must have been quite surprised. Welcome to the world of dissenting opinion, this one is yours. Since it is your opinion and not a statement of fact, it can’t really be “right” or “wrong,” per se, but you may find that other interpret it as mis- or under-informed. I am one of those people. People that live beyond their means are dumb. Those that do so and then are caught without any safety net when the floor falls out or without a chair when the music stops are tragic, but the fault is theirs. I would cautiously congratulate the media for reporting such stories, provided they do so with an eye toward prevention, i.e.- “The Jesse family did this, this and this, then this happened and they are left with these decisions. If they had instead done this and planned for that, they would now be in a position to do this until better times.” What you really should remember, though, is that the media presents stories that are exceptional, not mundane, therefore, by reporting about the Jesse family, the media is showing how they are an exception, not the rule. Just my $0.02. [sub][Pit]hell damn poop[/Pit][/sub] ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891/60 "2001-05-30T19:02:28Z")
I think I’ll do the world a service and translate fath- er, Scapegoat’s words into his native tongue, “Dumbshitese”. > [@](#): > > Wow, I’m dissapointed in you, Monster. Translation: “Err… me not know what you say, me say silly t’ing back.” > [@](#): > > I mean, is that all you have left? Translation: “Hurf hurf… me ams trolling! Me ams doing the make of the people typing! Me ams good widdle boy!” > [@](#): > > ? When this thread started you actually were giving me a run for my money- now it’s down to “looking for that stick up your ass”. Translation: “Me ams no able to read, but 'dat no stop’ems me from’ums my stupid-talk. Hurf hurf!” > [@](#): > > Admittedly, not all of my comments are Crossfire material, but I can tell by your writing that you are running out of steam and are degenerating into some really, REALLY juvenile arguments. Translation: “Duhhh… you’ums must be very much desperate to sound like me. Me ams not very bright, so me says silly t’ings 'dat make me’ums sound wike pool of bubbling bat stinky-poo.” > [@](#): > > Look, if I’m getting that under your skin I’ll happily back off! Just say “uncle”! Translation: “Hurf… if’ums da peeeeeeeeepul are saying stuff back to me, me must be doing something right! Huh, huh… seeing other people annoyed by me stupidity make dat funny thing between my legs get all stiff. Me go pway wif myself now… hurf hurf…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-a-nation-of-whiners/66891.md?page=4)