# America,all fur coat and no panties. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 6, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953 "2009-06-06T21:52:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/81 "2009-06-08T00:02:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Or have schoolteachers lead their students in a loyalty oath to the state every morning? Are you talking about one of those insidious recitations meant to indoctrinate innocent children, or the Pledge of Allegiance? 'Cause those are very, very different, you know. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/82 "2009-06-08T00:27:08Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > This might be out of date now but I remember going down Market street in San Francisco and seeing modern,commercial America in action,and very impressive it was too,but when I turned off there were dank slums with tramps standing around makeshift fires in oil drums. > > In Santa Monica in the early hours of the morning I saw people sleeping rough in posh shop doorways,one of them in a wheel chair,I kid you not. > My country has serious flaws and we know it,but until you recognise that there are flaws you aren’t going to be able to do anything to rectify those flaws. > > Its one thing being proud of your country and being patriotic but its another being blind and having a knee jerk reaction against any viewpoints that you might not like to hear. Meh, I had issues walking around many cities in europe being begged at [and my ass grabbed with impunity in italy] I saw an amazing assortment of beggers in Paris, Frankfurt and London. I wandered around europe for a total of about a year and a half over a few visits. Now if you can tell me that you did a year in the US, visiting dopers and seeing something other than tourist areas, interstates, airports, and trains then we can talk. Visiting Manhattan’s central park is nothing like going to a park like Letchworth State Park in western NY[the 'grand canon of the east, amazing scenery]. Visiting Disney World is nothing like hitting up a small independant amusement park and hanging out on the waterslides and tidal pools on a perfect summer afternoon. Poking around stuffy old museum is nothing like a recreated community like Sturbridge Village or Plymouth Plantation. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/83 "2009-06-08T01:04:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post > Er, what? So they can become part of a Fark headline with the Florida tag? > > I think you’re way overestimating the esteem in which Florida is held. I’m not sure, outside of retirees who are half reptilian anyway and need the sun to warm their blood, who thinks highly of it. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s consistently among the 5 most visited cities in the world. Florida is a city now? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/84 "2009-06-08T03:34:32Z")
Er… yeah. You didn’t hear? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/85 "2009-06-08T04:01:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think that your typical Brit (or German or Frenchman or Spaniard or Australian, or any other first-world-inhabitant) probably could afford big cars and lots of meat and the like, just like Americans, if you so chose. It’s just that, for whatever reason, you have different priorities than we do. > > And while I understand what you’re getting at with the analogy in your topic line, some of us consider it a good thing when a woman’s not wearing any panties. 🙂 Just for the record, and in case anyone later questions where I stand on the issue, I want to state that I am unabashedly pro fur-coat, no panties. On that point I will not be swayed. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/86 "2009-06-08T05:24:59Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Just for the record, and in case anyone later questions where I stand on the issue, I want to state that I am unabashedly pro fur-coat, no panties. On that point I will not be swayed. I have seen ladies just like that hanging out on the street in lots of big cities. I am not sure what would happen if you hit on one though. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/87 "2009-06-08T05:29:22Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I have seen ladies just like that hanging out on the street in lots of big cities. I am not sure what would happen if you hit on one though. If “the man” feels so threatened by my political convictions that he has to lock me up, then so be it. We will overcome. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/88 "2009-06-08T05:46:38Z")
> [@CutterJohn](#): > > The biggest fault of this country is that we are easily bored, and we(not me, but in general) tend to sensationalize everything. Sensationalizing everything is by no means a strictly American trait. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/89 "2009-06-08T06:06:40Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Sensationalizing everything is by no means a strictly American trait. But at least our American tabloids have the common decency to refer to celebrities by their proper names when exaggerating their antics. I mean, c’mon, “Jacko”? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/90 "2009-06-08T06:12:41Z")
This call for opinions will do much better in the opinion, (IMHO), forum. Off you go. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/91 "2009-06-08T06:16:07Z")
There’s a lot of things I wish were different in America. I wish we had national health insurance and I wish the entire western half of the 48 contiguous states were as amply provided with natural water as the eastern half. I wish there were more history in my region that is relevant to me linguistically, historically, and culturally. I also hate suburbs with a passion, not least for the damage that the movement to them has caused to the central cities. The problem is that for generations, we Americans have solved our problems by moving on, leaving those behind to deal with the problems as best they can. In my patronymic line of descent, the last five generations (including myself) were all born in different states. Now that just moving West isn’t necessarily an easy option anymore, there’s hope we may now be forced to deal with these problems instead of just leaving. Having said that, it’s wrong and well nigh incendiary to say shabby and dirty is the norm, even for those of us who still do live in cities. For instance, here’s my street in a neighborhood of moderately priced apartments (for rent that is). [My street](http://s494.photobucket.com/albums/rr308/DeathB4D_Calf/?action=view¤t=StreetView.jpg). It’s reasonably quiet but still within walking distance of at least some amenities. It’s certainly not shabby, dirty, or crime ridden. You do run into people who say they are afraid to go out, but seriously, most of them are just paranoid, unless they do live in one of the genuinely bad districts. And there certainly are bad districts in our cities, e.g. South Central L.A., Southside Chicago, and Bedford Stuyvesant in NYC, although I’m not sure about that last one anymore. Outside those neighborhoods you’re usually safe. I used to routinely ride the Metro at night from El Segundo to Downtown L.A. and back, via Watts, and I never had any trouble. Other American urban Dopers: show the OP _your_ street. We need to convince him it’s not the 1970s anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/92 "2009-06-08T06:21:14Z")
This seems a good place to mention that I’ve always been puzzled by the Anglo-Saxon-Jute migration to Great Britain in the Fifth Century. I mean, think about it. You’ve got these people sitting around deciding where they could migrate to. Some place with plenty of topsoil, good drainage, all mod cons (which were of course none in those days), and a better climate than Northern Germany. They regarded one another as they gave the matter the careful attention it deserved. Then they looked up and with one voice said, “Britain! We’re going to Britain.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/93 "2009-06-08T07:18:42Z")
This is ridiculous. Anywhere you go, you’re going to see things that are new and different. People in those places are used to them and don’t think they’re a big deal. A: In your country, you have X! How can you live like that? B: What? X is perfectly normal! You crazy freaks have Y. God, I’d hate that. A: Y isn’t even worth mentioning, everyone has Y. B: Not us, we’re superior. A: Then why do you have X, you sickos? I’ve lived in (the ass end of) Europe and in the Middle East and in several parts of the US and all of those places have positives and negatives. Constantly comparing your surroundings with your home isn’t going to make you enjoy your stay any more and it certainly isn’t going to endear you to anyone else - probably including your compatriots. That said, the idea that parts of the US is like a third world country is both hysterically funny and terribly sad. Clearly, the OP is unaware of the precarious situation of much of the world’s population. “Poverty” in the US means that you have electricity and running (clean, drinkable) water, that your children will receive thirteen years of free education, that you have to take the bus instead of owning a car, that you have access to all kind of social nets that aren’t available at all in actual developing countries. Could the health system be better? Hell yeah. Won’t get any argument from me there. Are you aware that in truly poor countries, _there isn’t any health system at all_? Jesus, this comparison is getting me madder the more I go on, not because it undervalues the US so much, but because it ignores the reality of true poverty. Also, Florida? Have no desire to visit. Ever. I figure y’all will do okay without me though, so doubt you’ll mind the snub. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/94 "2009-06-08T07:27:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Which Europeans are those? > > NATO and the Warsaw Pact states were the two main “characters” in the Cold War. The assorted peoples and governments of Western Europe spent just as much time trying to figure out how to defend themselves as the US did- in fact, probably quite a bit more. Americans worried about nuclear war. Europeans had to worry about nuclear war _and_ conventional war. > > Why do you think Britain and France maintained nuclear bomber and submarine fleets? Oh come on, you can’t be suggesting that the French, for example, were the reason that the Russians didn’t roll all the way to the Rhine. Not that I think that was a likely possibility for most of the later Cold War years, but in the early post-war years, what with them literally stringing up a line of barbed wire across Central Europe, and building walls and what not, I can excuse that generation for getting a little paranoid. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/95 "2009-06-08T07:35:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I like it better here, but there’s a caveat: I live in Florida, where everyone else in the world wants to be. I certainly don’t want to live in Florida, although there are certainly a number things there I’d like to see and do. Not the least of those is to go to a warm water beach. All our beaches in California are Alaska-Current cold ocean beaches. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/96 "2009-06-08T08:26:27Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > 1. Environmental-We are in a mess there. There are places that are worse but it is an endless battle against powers that don’t want to waste profits on clean air and water [Air pollution in British cities is ‘as toxic to the heart as an oil spill’](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-515703/Air-pollution-British-cities-toxic-heart-oil-spill.html) > [@gonzomax](#): > > 1. Physical wellness- We have about 60 million people with no health coverage. We are far from the top on medical quality. Sixty percent of our bankruptcies are due to illness. Life expectancy at birth in the UK: 78.7. In the US: 78.06. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/97 "2009-06-08T13:03:14Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > To answer your question I have travelled from Norfolk Virginia down to Florida several times by road, In other words, you drove down I-95. Whoopie. It’s easily one of the ugliest & most boring stretches of highway in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/98 "2009-06-08T13:08:25Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > I think the US ‘rulez’ attitude is tiresome, Almost as tiring as the ‘Europe is so much more enlightened’ attitude. > [@](#): > > We have been through that jingoistic populist phase, I’ve read extensively about that 200-year long “phase”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/99 "2009-06-08T13:44:07Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Oh come on, you can’t be suggesting that the French, for example, were the reason that the Russians didn’t roll all the way to the Rhine. Not that I think that was a likely possibility for most of the later Cold War years, but in the early post-war years, what with them literally stringing up a line of barbed wire across Central Europe, and building walls and what not, I can excuse that generation for getting a little paranoid. Certainly the French conventional forces had little to do with it. It’s pretty well known that the Soviets could have rolled all the way to Portugal in a matter of weeks if they’d wanted to. However, the original point was that Americans are all flag-wavey and jingoistic because of the Cold War, which kind of ignores the fact that Europe had much more to worry about during the Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953/100 "2009-06-08T13:45:03Z")
What do I think? I think the opinion of one broken down old lobsterback about my country is inconsequential. If I need input about yeast extract, room temperature beer, or how to get the Irish to hate me, I know just who I’ll ask though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-all-fur-coat-and-no-panties/498953.md?page=6)