# America cannot spell **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 10, 2000, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365 "2000-10-10T03:57:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/21 "2000-10-11T03:48:12Z")
Kyberneticist: Whoops… I realized I made a mistake as soon as I hit the submit button… m’bad… ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/22 "2000-10-11T04:05:10Z")
**Potatoe** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/23 "2000-10-11T10:05:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Anybody want to explain Thames? There isn’t really any explanation there to be had. Plenty of English words have irregular spellings (_bough_, _though_ and _tough_, for example) and English place-names are no exception. ---
**Author:** ![Minxsmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d07c76/32.png) [@Minxsmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minxsmom)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/24 "2000-10-13T22:41:02Z")
That was cute, **Enderw23** , in an annoying sort of way 😃 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/25 "2000-10-14T02:15:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Minxsmom \* > \*\*That was cute, **Enderw23** , in an annoying sort of way 😃 \*\* Well, I think you summed Ender’s existence up nicely. (j/k ;)) During the 18th and early 19th centuries, there was something in America called _The simpul speeling moovmint._ Obviously, it never caught on. But it was supported by many people including IIRC, Ben Franklin and other well-respected statesmen. Unfortunately, since I’m at a bar (jealous?), I don’t have the information at my fingertips, but there is a nice bit in one of the _Uncle John’s Bathroom Reader_ for all those interested. BTW: Except for Uncle Cecil, I consider Uncle John to be the ultimate authority in absolutely everything. He makes for great reading, and his books don’t suffer from bathroom humidity. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/26 "2000-10-14T02:47:41Z")
I’m sure the French think the British are lazy then. After all, the Frogs have croissants and frommage at Fontainebleu. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/27 "2000-10-14T02:51:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > \*\*I’m sure the French think the British are lazy then. After all, the Frogs have croissants and frommage at Fontainebleu. > \*\* Well, those surrender-monkeys did more to screw up spelling in English… ---
**Author:** ![APB9999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB9999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB9999)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/28 "2000-10-14T05:49:56Z")
Ello, watadoo. I ave a question. What’s up with the letter “H”. You seem to ave abandoned it completely over there. Why? Is it so orrible, so ideous to you that you ave completely relegated it to the single word “herb”? A bloke might suspect it was no more than to be contrary - this being the one word in which Americans do not pronounce the H. I Arry, ow are you? Did you ear about Arold? E was unting ippos in a game park in Awaii, when a uge ippo turned and it im in the ead. It was orrible, just orrible. Is airpiece went up in the air and got ung up in a tree. E was really urt. E learned is lesson, though, next year e’s eaded for Aiti. That’s in Ispaniola, you know. And speaking of silly spelling conventions, when Davy proposed the existence of the pure element, aluminum, he called it “alumium”, then almost immediately agreed to change it to “aluminum”. Aluminum it is. But no, the British insist on changing it to the awkward and unnecessary “aluminium”, so that it’ll be more like the other elements (Sodium, Palladium, etc.) What rubbish! It makes me hyperventilate just to think about it, why I’m breathing in oxygenium and exhaling carbonium dioxidium at a furious rate. Or maybe that’s just because the pipes in my old house are made out of leadium, rather than copperium, and we all know that’s not good for you. But it would take a big pile of goldium to change them now. The worst part is you actually _pronounce_ it as “aluminium”, which is very, very silly-sounding. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2000, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/29 "2000-10-15T18:33:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blessedwolf \* > [BDuring the 18th and early 19th centuries, there was something in America called _The simpul speeling moovmint._ Obviously, it never caught on. But it was supported by many people including IIRC, Ben Franklin and other well-respected statesmen. Unfortunately, since I’m at a bar (jealous?), I don’t have the information at my fingertips, but there is a nice bit in one of the _Uncle John’s Bathroom Reader_ for all those interested. > \*\* Boy was I off! The Simpul Spelling Moovmint was initiated in 1906, brought to the attention of the President (who supported it until eventually beinconvinced that it was a lost cause) by Dale Carnegie, who had heard of it from someone who should remain forever in obscurity. What’s the matter with you people??? If someone makes an error of that magnitude on these boards, they’re traditionally reamed out! Dammit, I want my reaming! (in a purely metaphorical sense, of course ;)) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/30 "2000-10-15T21:40:00Z")
**blessed** said > [@](#): > > What’s the matter with you people??? > > If someone makes an error of that magnitude on these boards, they’re traditionally reamed out! > > Dammit, I want my reaming! (in a purely metaphorical sense, of course ) Well, let’s examing the possibilities. l. Between the hours of 2am Sun. morning and 2 pm Sunday afternoon, all SD’s are asleep/in church/surreptitiously reading other boards. 1. You are an insignificant spot on a huge canvas. And nobody cares enough about you to answer. 😃 2. Traditions are on their way out. The attention span of todays human being is so short that they can’t remember to come back to this thread. 3. The people here have, overnight, turned into a kinder, more gentle group(how do you spell _guffaw?_) 4. Someone need flaming more than you. ---
**Author:** ![el\_mono](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ea666f/32.png) [@el\_mono](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/el_mono)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2000, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/31 "2000-10-15T22:10:44Z")
Yes, there is indeed a problem and not only with spelling. The vast majority of Americans searching for jobs today have no concept of grammar either. As an HR manager I can’t tell you how many resumes and cover letters that cross my desk filled with misspellings and gramatical errors. It’s a damn shame. Some of these documents are sent, I’m sure, by highly intelligent individuals who have a great to deal to offer a prospective employer. Problem is, I immediately discard them; okay, I don’t immediately discard them, first I laugh my ass off and then I discard them. It’s such an easy fix: If you aren’t sure of your spelling and/or grammar, have the document proofed by someone you trust before putting it in the mail. I am fine with typos in e mail, shit happens, but when it comes to important correspondence, have it checked before it’s sent. By the way, “The Art of Spelling” by Marilyn Vos Savant, (sorry, Cecil) is an excellent book and details, among other things, why the English language sometimes seems a mess. Think good thoughts! ---
**Author:** ![APB9999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB9999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB9999)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/32 "2000-10-16T04:15:05Z")
U gize r two meen too Merkins. My speling is grat. And also my grammar fyn. Wel, acsept four hur artafishel hip mayby. Duh prablim is not wit speling but wit pronownsiayshun. F 1(no awfens) tawked da way 1 spelz, day’d b speeking byutiful midul inglish, lyk Chawsir. It’s owr oufil way f tawking dat’s al rong, not da leters we yooz. ---
**Author:** ![TheThill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheThill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheThill)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/33 "2000-10-16T13:14:02Z")
If we’re now talking about actual usage, at least as far as public signs are concerned (in restaurants, etc.), the Brits aren’t the spellers they once were (or probably weren’t.) Apostrophes scattered liberally in plural endings (taco’s, chip’s, etc.), and plenty of orthographical errors. If were still on the subject of official usage, what’s the difference. Does everyone here actually always know if spellings are British or American. I mean, some are quite obvious (color/colour, jail/gaol) but others are rather subtle (fulfil, enquire) and confusing, especially if you read a lot of books published in both countries. In any case, it just doesn’t seem like something that should be a problem. As for zed/zee, zed does make more sense, as it is easier to distinguish from a “cee” on the telephone, or when talking to foreigners whose first language doesn’t make the phonetic distinction between s and z (Germans, Spanish…) And since English is now the world language (for better or for worse) this is something that should be taken into consideration. Well, at least all Americans should be familiar with the “zed” form. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2000, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/34 "2000-10-16T17:08:04Z")
> [@](#): > > the Brits aren’t the spellers they once were (or probably weren’t.) Apostrophes scattered liberally in plural endings (taco’s, chip’s, etc.) This otiose apostrophe is sometimes called a “greengrocer’s apostrophe” in England, since you see it so often on signs in market stalls. The phrase is sufficiently well-established to suggest that it has been going on for a long time, and we have never been particualrly good spellers. ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2000, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/35 "2000-10-17T02:23:18Z")
**PunditLisa** —The French do have Fontainebleu and croissants, but they’re not quite as ambitious as you give them credit to be. _Fromage_ is spelled only with one M. This raises an interesting point about spelling. Doubled letters are a bête noir of the French themselves when it comes to writing their own language. A professor of mine, born and raised in France and thoroughly in love with the French language, said that about 75% of the time the letters are doubled, so if you’re not sure, stick the extra letter in there. I don’t know if French has ever had any sort of movement to simplify spelling. (The laws concerning strict control over spelling and word usage in France are greatly exaggerated outside of France, I’ve noticed.) Still, I have to give the French a lot of credit for putting up with all those letters which are usually silent but sometimes pronounced, waiting in the wings for the right moment in speech when they’re pronounced. If I were the X in _beaux_, for example, I wouldn’t mind not getting pronounced all the time, because when you do get pronounced, it’s all that more special. (Okay, that’s it, I’m putting the cork back into the bottle of port. It’s having too much of an effect on me tonight.) My point? Oh, yes: kudos to the French for being such champion, devoted spellers. The ones I’ve met on line can’t spell their own language to save their lives, for the most part, but neither can their anglophonic counterparts, so c’est pas grande chose. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2000, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/36 "2000-10-17T16:06:17Z")
I haven’t got a whole lot to contribute to the debate – if it is one at this point – but I can’t miss an opportunity to tell the world about my absolute FAVORITE British market sign: “HALF PRICE TUE’SDAYS” Well, I suppose it _is_ a possessive of sorts… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2000, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/37 "2000-10-17T18:16:19Z")
That should be “ **Tyr** ’sdays”, **FP**. Boy, those Brits are lousy spellers, aren’t they? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2000, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/38 "2000-10-17T19:26:57Z")
betenoir wrote: > [@](#): > > Anybody want to explain Thames? No. Now pass me the Worcestershire sauce. ---
**Author:** ![dwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwyr/32/363_2.png) [@dwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwyr)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/39 "2000-10-18T00:19:53Z")
“America cannot spell” I keep wondering when did “cannot” become a single word? Did it not used to be two separate ones? After all no one writes shouldnot, couldnot, wouldnot or didnot do they? It’s a small thing but it drives me batty. (Not a long trip I admit. :)) ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2000, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365/40 "2000-10-18T12:27:19Z")
The OED lists examples of “cannot” from as early as 1400 and “can’t” from the early 18th Century. I guess it’s to do with the fact that, in normal, brisk speech, the two “n” sounds invariably become one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-cannot-spell/36365.md?page=1)