# America First may result in lost armament sales **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 16, 2025, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640 "2025-03-16T04:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/46 "2025-03-19T04:49:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > …a _rabidly_ irrational, aggressive and tyrannical US that makes China look like a bastion of freedom and human rights in comparison. …I think you may be underestimating how bad China is in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/47 "2025-03-19T04:50:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The new Canadian Defence Minister has announced that Canada may only take the first 16 jets, scheduled for delivery this year, cancel the rest, and may go to Saab for a new contract, because of the tension with the US. I question why we’re buying even 16 of these shitty, single-engine trouble-prone and hugely overpriced F-35 jets in view of the Orange Felon currently running the USA who’s taken the position that from now on the US will be buying nothing at all from Canada. We’re forging new alliances with Europe, and we should at least explore how practical it would be to buy new fighter jets from them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/48 "2025-03-19T04:59:50Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > …I think you may be underestimating how bad China is in this regard. And I think you misunderstand how bad the direction America is heading in is. China’s never exterminated or deported half its own population, for one. Or exterminated the entire population of Africa and South America. Or destroyed modern civilization, but of course after that there won’t be much in the way of historians to make any comparisons. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/49 "2025-03-19T06:55:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Or bury them as nuclear mines. I had forgotten that suitcase nukes were a thing. Apparently they require maintenance, but I’d like greater detail about that. > **[Atomic demolition munition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_demolition_munition)** > > Atomic demolition munitions (ADMs), colloquially known as nuclear land mines, are small nuclear explosive devices. ADMs were developed for both military and civilian purposes. As weapons, they were designed to be exploded in the forward battle area, in order to block or channel enemy forces. Non-militarily, they were designed for demolition, mining or earthmoving. Apart from testing, however, they have never been used for either purpose. > Instead of being delivered to the target by missiles, ro... The first nation to install one of these devices should make it look like an attempt by China to frame Russia for planting one of these devices in order to blame the Hungarians. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/50 "2025-03-19T07:22:40Z")
Even without politics and even if Washington and Ottawa were on the best of terms, the F-35 wasn’t an ideal jet for Canada anyway. As you point out, Canada’s distance is vast and a single-engine jet means you can’t limp to a runway in an engine failure. And Canada had little to no practical use for stealth. Super Hornet or F-15EX Super Eagle would have been best, especially since CF-18 was already similar to Super Hornet. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/51 "2025-03-19T14:26:26Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I question why we’re buying even 16 of these shitty, … I suspect much of the money for them has already been handed over to the USA. Since they got your money you should at least take possession of their goods to deny them having both the money _and_ the jets. Jets they can resell to somebody else or seize to use themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/52 "2025-03-21T00:06:03Z")
Good article on The War Zone: > **[New European Union Plan To Boost Local Arms Production Would Freeze U.S. Out...](https://www.twz.com/news-features/new-eu-plan-to-boost-local-arms-production-would-freeze-u-s-out-of-hundreds-of-billions)** > > Canada, angered by Trump's tariffs and rhetoric, may also join this new initiative as concerns over reliance on U.S. weapons grow. One customer that one would think really has to be second-guessing now would be Finland, which placed an $8 billion order for 64 Lightning II jets years ago. With the Finns being that close to Russia, and so close to Sweden, it might be in best Finnish interests for them to ditch the F-35 and go with Saab’s Gripen instead. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2025, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/53 "2025-03-23T23:49:38Z")
Interesting update: Boeing has just been awarded the contract for the F-47 NGAD fighter jet. However, unlike the F-22 Raptor, which was prohibited from foreign sale by Congress, this F-47 may be available for sale. If it is, then it might be hard for some American allies to pass up a chance to buy this jet even if they hate Trump. > **[U.S. to reduce capabilities of new jet purchased by allies](https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/u-s-to-reduce-capabilities-of-new-jet-purchased-by-allies/)** ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2025, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/54 "2025-03-23T23:58:13Z")
Only if they are foolish enough to supply their defense using a nation that is totally unreliable at best, and likely their future enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/55 "2025-03-24T00:29:45Z")
And which may have kill switches buried away in the software for each plane. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/56 "2025-03-24T01:45:30Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And which may have kill switches buried away in the software for each plane Danish conservative MP makes the case for not buying American. "_Buying American weapons is a security risk that we can not run._ " > > > F-35 Lightning II @thef35 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/57 "2025-03-24T01:49:24Z")
> “After weeks of speculation, the Pentagon formally denies having the ability to remotely disable @LockheedMartin’s F-35 fighter jets.” Given Trump’s threats to Denmark and Greenland, the Danes would be foolish to trust the Pentagon’s word. Trust once destroyed is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/58 "2025-03-24T02:01:43Z")
Also given that the fighters regularly require replacement parts and software updates there’s nothing stopping them from _adding_ a kill switch later. Or more subtle stuff like spyware. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/59 "2025-03-24T02:39:40Z")
Or just not providing the replacement parts or software upgrades, a couple of weeks before they invade Greenland. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/60 "2025-03-24T03:59:53Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > However, unlike the F-22 Raptor, which was prohibited from foreign sale by Congress, this F-47 may be available for sale. If it is, then it might be hard for some American allies to pass up a chance to buy this jet even if they hate Trump. Europe has potential alternatives in the works - the [Tempest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Tempest) and the New Generation Fighter from the [GCAP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Combat_Air_Programme) (UK, Japan and Italy) and [FCAS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Combat_Air_System) (France, Germany and Spain). If tensions escalate and/or the U.S. departs NATO, I imagine more resources could be poured into those projects. The expertise exists in situ, the U.S. just has the advantage of unified logistics and a larger manufacturing base. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640/61 "2025-03-24T05:22:40Z")
It wasn’t that long ago we had this little international spat: > [@France is throwing a temper tantrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/france-is-throwing-a-temper-tantrum/950850): > > Background: In 2016, Australia had signed a deal to buy 12 diesel submarines from a French company. Fast-forward to now, and Australia, the UK, and the US have just announced a 3-way deal to provide the Aussies with nuclear subs. This has made the French VERY upset. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-us-australia-over-submarine-deal/ar-AAOyNcL?li](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france-recalls-ambassadors-to-us-australia-over-submarine-deal/ar-AAOyNcL?li) Methinks that there might be a couple of defense force mandarins in Canberra who are wondering whether this bit of toothpaste can be put back in the tube. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-first-may-result-in-lost-armament-sales/1015640.md?page=2)