# America is an Imperialist Monster **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2003, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853 "2003-04-15T11:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/21 "2003-04-15T18:35:55Z")
I have to admit **Derleth** , you had me going there until about half way through the second paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/22 "2003-04-15T18:41:29Z")
Now this, people, is irony in its most understated and sublime form. For those who don’t get it, Derleth actually supports the war. Sorry if that went over people’s heads. Furthermore, he recognizes that failure to support the war is implicit support for Saddam, and the subtle parallel between military action and a scientific investigation into a cure for cancer. Bravo, Derleth! I couldn’t have said it better if you gave me a team of writers to work with. Let me just add: Die, you peacenick scum, die!!! ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/23 "2003-04-15T19:40:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > Now this, people, is irony in its most understated and sublime form. For those who don’t get it, Derleth actually supports the war. Sorry if that went over people’s heads. Furthermore, he recognizes that failure to support the war is implicit support for Saddam, and the subtle parallel between military action and a scientific investigation into a cure for cancer. Ya don’t say! So, is The Onion a real newspaper? ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/24 "2003-04-15T20:07:25Z")
Aw everyone quit yer bellyaching! Let’s face it we have no idea whether this result is good or bad… and we won’t know for weeks, years, or decades. I mean days ago people were celbrating in the streets then they were looting the streets, then they were protesting US presence. Hell Is there going to be one Iraq or three? One day Syria is being asked to join a coilition now its being warned that it will be punished for its WMDs. Is the region more stable? Is the War over? Yes… no…maybe… sort of… So blow it out of yer chumholes ya bunch of high and mighty yay/nay sayers. The truth is none of you know what the hell you are talking about or what is going on. No one does… 'cept Miss Cleo . ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/25 "2003-04-15T20:25:26Z")
Baghdad Bob is a Doper!!! ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/26 "2003-04-15T20:28:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*Ya don’t say! So, is The Onion a real newspaper? \*\* I’d say that Derleth’s post would make a fine Onion article, but once you decode the irony, there is nothing remaining but the naked truth. It simply wouldn’t fit in your liberal humor webzine, now would it? No!!! Admit your error. I saw happy Iraqis on television. They had flags. Bush will stamp out terrorism, then turn his penetrating gaze on our economy… and the world better just shut up and take notes. Err, pengvin: Of course the region is more stable. Of course the result is good. You don’t honestly think the lives of US soldiers, not to mention innumerable Iraqi civilians were jeopardized for an unknown quantity? It was carefully calculated I tell you, because let’s face it, after the bloodshed, an indeterminate result isn’t ‘_either good or bad_’ it’s bad. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/27 "2003-04-15T21:24:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\*‘As flames engulfed Baghdad’s National Library yesterday, destroying manuscripts many centuries old, the Pentagon admitted that it had been caught unprepared by the widespread looting of antiquities, despite months of warnings from American archaeologists.’ > > ‘Calling the looting of historical artefacts “a catastrophe for the cultural heritage of Iraq”, Mounir Bouchenaki, the deputy director-general of the UN cultural body Unesco, announced an emergency summit of archaeologists in Paris on Thursday.’ \*\* Who met in Paris when 10,000 Kurds were gassed? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/28 "2003-04-15T21:31:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Who met in Paris when 10,000 Kurds were gassed? \*\* Who sold them the gas? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/29 "2003-04-15T21:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*I’d say that Derleth’s post would make a fine Onion article, but once you decode the irony, there is nothing remaining but the naked truth. It simply wouldn’t fit in your liberal humor webzine, now would it? No!!! Admit your error. I saw happy Iraqis on television. They had flags. Bush will stamp out terrorism, then turn his penetrating gaze on our economy… and the world better just shut up and take notes. > > Err, pengvin: > Of course the region is more stable. Of course the result is good. You don’t honestly think the lives of US soldiers, not to mention innumerable Iraqi civilians were jeopardized for an unknown quantity? It was carefully calculated I tell you, because let’s face it, after the bloodshed, an indeterminate result isn’t ‘_either good or bad_’ it’s bad. Right? \*\* Are you trying for the irony thing too? Sorry - lost you.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/30 "2003-04-15T21:38:54Z")
According to the extremist liberal rag, the New Internationalist, German sold them mustard and nerve gas as well as components for purifying uranium. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/31 "2003-04-15T21:40:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Who met in Paris when 10,000 Kurds were gassed? \*\* To be fair, there was outrage, although no decisive action. Archaeologists, of course, are not politicians and are just reacting within their own area of expertise. Blowero: sorry, I’m not as graceful as Derleth… yes, I was being critical. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/32 "2003-04-15T22:41:33Z")
I think everyone knows I was being deeply sarcastic in my OP. I don’t completely support the war, but I’m really tired of how certain people have bashed America left and right even as Iraqis greeted our forces much the same way Kuwaitis did in 1991. I don’t think it was all that subtle. I was deliberately channeling and amplifying everyone from Chirac to the Iraqi Information Minister Chuckles “The Americans are dying!” Clown. Hell, I was angry and I wanted to parody my enemy. Should we have gone in without a second resolution? No. We’re a part of the UN _and all that entails._ Should France have promised to unilaterally veto anything even hinting at an armed response? No. It, too, is part of the UN _and all that entails._ People like me, pro-UN but not completely anti-war, were trapped between two equally dogmatic and equally moronic systems fighting a turf war while Saddam gets a free holiday to oppress his people. I still have to reconcile my joy at seeing Iraq freed with my sadness at the death of the UN. So my OP stands there, a parody of everyone who thinks Iraq should have put up more of a fight, just to teach the US a lesson. A parody of everyone who thinks everything America does is tainted _by definition_ and can _only_ benefit Entrenched Interests. A parody of everyone who thinks America is somehow unworthy of acting on its own, but Europe has a blank check to prop up anyone it cares to and is Above Reproach. ---
**Author:** ![micilin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8c91f0/32.png) [@micilin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/micilin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/33 "2003-04-15T22:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \*I?d say that Derleth?s post would make a fine Onion article, but once you decode the irony, there is nothing remaining but the naked truth. It simply wouldn?t fit in your liberal humor webzine, now would it? No!!! Admit your error. I saw happy Iraqis on television. They had flags. > > Bush will stamp out terrorism, then turn his penetrating gaze on our economy? and the world better just shut up and take notes. > > Err, pengvin: > Of course the region is more stable. Of course the result is good. You don?t honestly think the lives of US soldiers, not to mention innumerable Iraqi civilians were jeopardized for an unknown quantity? It was carefully calculated I tell you, because let?s face it, after the bloodshed, an indeterminate result isn?t ?_either good or bad_? it?s bad. Right? \*\* **Waverly** , the OP was easy in that it was clumsy sarcasm as opposed to irony. The above, on the other hand leaves me puzzled. Just _what_ are you on about? Or to put it another way: Oh my god! I think I’m being wooshed! :eek: (On preview. What **blowero** said) ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/34 "2003-04-15T22:52:08Z")
**Derleth** –I agree with what you’ve said (and the initial post was hilarious) but I would caution you that it’s not over yet. The hard part (i.e. Reconstruction) is just beginning and we won’t know for a few years yet how successful we’ve been. And I have to say that I hope we’ve got competent people on the ground that can pull this off, but that the Bush administrations lack of diplomatic tact so far doesn’t give me much reassurance. I hope hope hope I’m wrong though. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/35 "2003-04-15T23:09:34Z")
_Puts on Roman Praetorian helmet_ Pax Americana! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/36 "2003-04-15T23:50:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Who met in Paris when 10,000 Kurds were gassed? \*\* The have no archaeological significance today. But think of how valuable they’ll be when dug up in another thousand years! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/37 "2003-04-16T06:25:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > Blowero: sorry, I’m not as graceful as Derleth… yes, I was being critical. Of whom? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/38 "2003-04-16T07:18:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > I don’t completely support the war, but I’m really tired of how certain people have bashed America left and right even as Iraqis greeted our forces much the same way Kuwaitis did in 1991. Well, apparently the Iraqis in Baghdad have been [protesting against the Americans](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/15/1050172597223.html) for three days now; did that happen in Kuwait, too? ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/39 "2003-04-16T09:47:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Well, apparently the Iraqis in Baghdad have been [protesting against the Americans](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/15/1050172597223.html) for three days now; did that happen in Kuwait, too? \*\* “We want you to pull back to the back of the hotel because they (the Iraqis) are only performing because the media are here,” said a marines colonel _snort_ Truer words were never spoken, assuming of course this article is accurate. It’s the new Schrödinger’s cat; the act of reporting creates the news. I’m sure this principal does not apply to celebrating Iraqis, however. They have flags, for Og’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2003, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853/40 "2003-04-16T09:49:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Well, apparently the Iraqis in Baghdad have been [protesting against the Americans](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/04/15/1050172597223.html) for three days now; did that happen in Kuwait, too? \*\* And for the first time in their lives, they’ve done it without being shot, tortured, or imprisoned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-an-imperialist-monster/168853.md?page=3)