# America is Sterilizing ICE Detainees!? What-The-Actual-Fuck...? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2020, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660 "2020-09-15T09:46:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/81 "2020-09-16T14:22:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The idea that ICE is/was conspiring to sterilize a bunch of detainees through hysterectomy is, in my view, utter nonsense. If sterilization was the goal, the Right-Wing Henchmen would’ve chosen tubal ligation as their method. Lots cheaper and more efficient. But also harder to explain/justify to others. Hysterectomy can always be justified as “I did it to save her life!”. Tubal ligation not so much. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > The idea that a run-amok OB-GYN was out to sterilize a bunch of detainees through hysterectomy is only slightly less nonsensical. Not at all - the US has a long history of involuntary sterilization, both institutionally and individually. But keep telling yourself pretty stories if you can’t handle ugly history. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/82 "2020-09-16T14:25:17Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Except for setting up a system in which people applying for asylum are in effect forced into a for-profit prison system, and are encouraged to be seen not as desperate humans seeking help but as rapists and grifters. I’ve posted my theory before that the terrible conditions at the detainment centers are intentional. The Trump administration is trying to provoke these people into rioting so they can film the riots and then use the footage to scare voters. I was saying this before they carried out what is essentially the same tactic in American cities. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/83 "2020-09-16T14:37:16Z")
" The [press release](https://whistleblower.org/press-release/press-release-whistleblowing-nurse-from-detention-center-in-georgia-reports-unsafe-practices-that-promote-the-spread-of-covid-19-in-ice-detention/) about the complaint on the Government Accountability Project website similarly **doesn’t mention detained immigrant women being unwillingly sterilized** —an odd omission given its explosiveness." “…The Intercept **did not, however, mention hysterectomies** once.” > **[What was missed in the viral rush of the ICE-forced hysterectomies story](https://www.dailydot.com/debug/forced-hysterectomy-story-russia/)** > > Explosive story about 'forced hysterectomies' at ICE detention facility spreads as questions mount about its veracity and who's behind the spread. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/84 "2020-09-16T14:37:34Z")
That article says the surgeries were performed at Irwin County Hospital. I find it hard to believe that the hospital staff wouldn’t get consent from the patient before proceeding with a procedure. I also think they would get a translator if necessary to communicate. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/85 "2020-09-16T15:02:12Z")
Bigotry, anti-abortion and anti-liberalism. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/86 "2020-09-16T15:07:11Z")
While it’s true that the press release from those websites don’t mention hysterectomies, the original whistle blower complaint does ([PDF](https://projectsouth.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/OIG-ICDC-Complaint-1.pdf)) starting on page 18. So, I don’t know what the point of your post is, other than to show that your news sources continue to lie and mislead you, and you bring those lies and fabrications to this site. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/87 "2020-09-16T15:08:41Z")
Come on, Occam’s razor would indicate that the simplest explanation is NOT some sort of shadowy government orders to forcibly sterilize these women under the pretext of necessary medical care. The simple explanation is that some asshole doctor is padding his billing through unnecessary surgeries on people who aren’t in a position to sue or otherwise protest. That said, it’s the government’s problem since they’re responsible for these detainees, but there’s no proof that the surgeries were done at the government’s behest. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/88 "2020-09-16T15:59:25Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Come on, Occam’s razor would indicate that the simplest explanation is NOT some sort of shadowy government orders to forcibly sterilize these women under the pretext of necessary medical care. Is this particular razor taking multiple previous examples of government doing exactly that fucking thing into account? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/89 "2020-09-16T16:31:47Z")
I will also take the position that I need more proof before adding this to the (already quite lengthy) list of atrocities that I lay at the feet of Tr\*mp and the Republican party. Isn’t this the board that says things like extreme claims require extreme evidence? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/90 "2020-09-16T17:24:49Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I will also take the position that I need more proof before adding this to the (already quite lengthy) list of atrocities that I lay at the feet of Tr\*mp and the Republican party. lsn’t this the board that says things like extreme claims require extreme evidence? Sure, but the history of the 21st century Republican Party in general and the America-hating fuckstick administration in particular has _REALLY_ blurred the lines around what amounts to an extreme claim. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/91 "2020-09-16T17:31:14Z")
Precisely. There hasn’t been a President yet under whom we’d entertain the notion of a secret sterilization scheme. But things have gotten to the point that we don’t consider it impossible - only that we’d want more evidence before being confident it’s happening. That’s an astonishing difference in the credibility of this Administration and the amount of evidence that would be necessary to consider it a plausible charge. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/92 "2020-09-16T17:52:16Z")
I think it falls in the category of “norms that Trump has broken” - there was time (about four years ago) when this doctor most likely wouldn’t have tried to that, just like people used to worry about being called racists. Trump has made it OK for people to be ‘politically incorrect’, which at a minimum gives them carte blanche to be assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/93 "2020-09-16T18:34:27Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Bigotry, anti-abortion and anti-liberalism. I tend to disagree on the bigotry part, as far as ethnicity is concerned. Most evangelicals are fairly open-minded on race. We’re long past the point where people used religion as a means to support beliefs of racial superiority. In my community, all of the churches have posted signs openly supporting the Black Lives Matter movement. There are admittedly many evangelicals who are anti-gay and/or anti-trans because they believe those are choices people make rather than something people are born with. But Trump and the Republicans haven’t made an issue out of gay rights or trans rights in this election. I’m not sure what you define as liberalism and anti-liberalism. But I think evangelicals support many social programs that are often associated with liberalism. Helping poor people is certainly a part of their religious agenda. So the big one is their opposition to abortions. Which I discussed in my previous post. It is in fact one of the reasons why I said Trump is risking losing evangelical support over the sterilization scandal. People who are opposed to abortions are generally equally opposed to sterilization. Evangelicals tell each other horror stories about the government forcing people to have abortions or be sterilized. Of course when they tell these stories, they generally are saying it’s the left who would be doing it. But they will be just as appalled to find out it’s a conservative government doing it. Maybe even more so as they will feel the conservatives deceived and betrayed them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/94 "2020-09-16T18:36:33Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I will also take the position that I need more proof before adding this to the (already quite lengthy) list of atrocities that I lay at the feet of Tr\*mp and the Republican party. Isn’t this the board that says things like extreme claims require extreme evidence? The fact that there is a list of atrocities tends to support these reports. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/95 "2020-09-16T18:56:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We’re long past the point where people used religion as a means to support beliefs of racial superiority. In my community, all of the churches have posted signs openly supporting the Black Lives Matter movement. That’s nice. How many of those churches have integrated congregations? > [@bump](#): > > Come on, Occam’s razor would indicate that the simplest explanation is NOT some sort of shadowy government orders to forcibly sterilize these women under the pretext of necessary medical care. > > The simple explanation is that some asshole doctor is padding his billing through unnecessary surgeries on people who aren’t in a position to sue or otherwise protest. I’d be more willing to accept that argument if there wasn’t a long history of forcible sterilizations without consent or sometimes without even informing the sterilized people of what had been done to them in this country. Involuntary sterilization in the US _is not a new thing._ ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/96 "2020-09-16T19:03:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I tend to disagree on the bigotry part, as far as ethnicity is concerned. Most evangelicals are fairly open-minded on race. We’re long past the point where people used religion as a means to support beliefs of racial superiority. In my community, all of the churches have posted signs openly supporting the Black Lives Matter movement. > > There are admittedly many evangelicals who are anti-gay and/or anti-trans because they believe those are choices people make rather than something people are born with. But Trump and the Republicans haven’t made an issue out of gay rights or trans rights in this election. > > I’m not sure what you define as liberalism and anti-liberalism. But I think evangelicals support many social programs that are often associated with liberalism. Helping poor people is certainly a part of their religious agenda. I think that “Evangelicals” is a label that certainly includes some who hold the values you describe. However, it also includes a large (perhaps majority) proportion of those who hold the values I described. The latter will vote for the devil himself if he promises to pack the court with conservative judges who will overturn R.v.W. So even if they learn that immigrant detainees suffered illegal sterilization procedures during the Trump administration, they will still view Trump as a means to justify their desired ends. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/97 "2020-09-16T19:15:30Z")
"The word **“mass” doesn’t appear** in the complaint. “ **Forced** ,” which others have used to describe these alleged procedures, **appears only once in a line about shared phones**. The complaint specifically only states “this complaint raises red flags regarding the rate at which hysterectomies are performed on immigrant women under ICE custody at ICDC.” The sourcing is all currently **secondhand**." ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/98 "2020-09-16T19:28:23Z")
It would be interesting to see if this doctor donates to the Trump campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/99 "2020-09-16T20:42:51Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I think that “Evangelicals” is a label that certainly includes some who hold the values you describe. However, it also includes a large (perhaps majority) proportion of those who hold the values I described. The latter will vote for the devil himself if he promises to pack the court with conservative judges who will overturn R.v.W. So even if they learn that immigrant detainees suffered illegal sterilization procedures during the Trump administration, they will still view Trump as a means to justify their desired ends. I feel you’re creating a compartmentalization that doesn’t exist. To evangelicals, sterilization and abortions are essentially the same issue. As far as they’re concerned, you can’t be support one and not the other. So the Trump administration’s pro-sterilization program will negate any support he might gain from promising to be anti-abortion. As far as evangelicals are concerned, Trump is now on the enemy side. Trump’s only hope is to completely distance himself from this. He won’t get away with just announcing he was unaware of this (which he may actually have been). If he wants to hang on to evangelical support, he has to publicly pretend to be shocked by these allegations. He has to fire the people who were doing this and announce he completely condemns what happened. Personally, I don’t think Trump has it in him. This would come too close to Trump admitting he made a mistake and he hates doing that. He’d rather bluster that this is all fake news and no big deal and it’s somebody else’s fault. The other factor in Trump’s mind will be the support of the favorite part of his base: the racists. Trump consistently plays up to them. They’re going to love the idea that Trump is sterilizing Mexican women. And when they cheer for him, Trump will eat it up. He’ll take credit without thinking through the consequences of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/100 "2020-09-16T20:54:05Z")
We can agree that given every alternative, Trump will handle this in the worst way possible. So you don’t think there is significant overlap between the racists/bigots and the evangelicals? I wish I had your confidence that they will see him as the enemy in light of this development and as a result not vote for him anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660.md?page=6)