# America is Sterilizing ICE Detainees!? What-The-Actual-Fuck...? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2020, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660 "2020-09-15T09:46:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![BrassPlayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brassplayer/32/4200_2.png) [@BrassPlayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassPlayer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/141 "2020-09-18T18:41:59Z")
I wasn’t suggesting we sterlize one male. All of the ones who are fathering children. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/142 "2020-09-18T18:53:11Z")
Oh, so you’re on board with the sterilization policy for immigrants… is that your position? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/143 "2020-09-18T19:03:59Z")
Skipping right past the part where you sound like you are advocating this position… What do you mean by all the ones who are fathering children? You mean _all_ males? As long as there is one fertile male, they can impregnate any number of women. For each woman that you sterilize, there is one less for them to impregnate. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/144 "2020-09-18T19:22:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That, and it seems like from the article like it was more that this guy was doing hysterectomies as questionable treatment for gynecological issues, which is fundamentally different than rounding up healthy women or men and doing the same thing. Agreed, except the women WERE healthy. The doctor CLAIMED they had health problems they didn’t have: > One of the women, who is of child-bearing age, was told she needed to have a hysterectomy after Amin found ovarian cysts, Osorio said. She was advised that they were cancerous, but her records indicate she was not given a biopsy to confirm the cancer, he said. In another case, he said, his client was told she had stage 4 cervical cancer and would need a hysterectomy and chemotherapy. But after her hysterectomy, an oncologist in Charlotte said she did not have cancer, according to Osorio. One woman saw the doctor, Mahendra Amin, for a rash. He told her the rash was nothing, but she had a cyst on her ovary. When she reported this to other detainees, they said, “Yes, he always says a cyst is involved.” I agree that that greed was probably the motive. Amin and other docs were the subject of a 2015 investigation into false Medicare/Medicaid claims. They paid $520,000 in a civil settlement. I’m sure Amin used the fact most of these women didn’t speak much English and that their complaints would be ignored, as have so many of the complaints against ICDC, the detention center in question, and LaSalle Corrections, the for-profit company running ICDC. So while this probably isn’t part of a systematic sterilization program, that doesn’t mean it isn’t pretty horrifying: _“A troubling pattern seems to be emerging that bears further investigation, whereby women who complain about surgeries that are planned or have been conducted are shunted into the facility’s mental health system where they issue their complaints and tell the mental health providers they are not making psychiatric referral requests, but rather have fear or regret about surgical procedures performed on their bodies.”_ And Lasalle Corrections, has [a troubling history](https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/investigates/jailed-to-death-false-paperwork-deaths-widespread-in-n-texas-for-profits-jails/287-610400876) of neglect and falsifying paperwork. The government hired a shoddy company to do a shoddy job and then failed to give adequate oversight to the shoddy company. The situation was ripe for a Dr. Amin to exploit women. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/145 "2020-09-18T19:48:32Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Some pro-life evangelical leaders are beginning to notice, and beginning to outcry. A spot check on a few of those named in the article sees to show Evangelicals who already aren’t particularly enamored with Trump. Particularly when it comes to the treatment of immigrants. Are there any Evangelicals of the Trump cult type speaking out? ---
**Author:** ![BrassPlayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brassplayer/32/4200_2.png) [@BrassPlayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassPlayer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/146 "2020-09-18T20:24:33Z")
The point I was hoping to get across without having to actually say it is that blatant misogynism is not even recognized. Let’s do the invasive sterilization of women and not do the much less invasive sterilization of men, because, well, men are never ever going to do anything to impact themselves. End of topic for me. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/147 "2020-09-18T20:27:31Z")
Oh sure, there’s misogynism there, and it has been pointed out. However, you were making a different point, about effectiveness of different sterilization policies. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/148 "2020-09-18T21:36:24Z")
Nothing but thinly veiled profiteering, in my opinion. The Dr is making bank, possibly the hospital, and maybe others. The whole ICE detention scheme seems to be just laundering government money/profiteering. $775 US per child, per day? For no necessities and a tinfoil blanket in a tent or cage? I think the Wall is much the same. It’s not about immigration, it’s about funnelling unholy amounts of government money to corrupt actors. Misogyny, racism, eugenics? Profiteering straight up! Disguised as something else to distract with outrage, from the $$$ going down the rabbit hole! ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/149 "2020-09-18T21:46:02Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Misogyny, racism, eugenics? Profiteering straight up! Disguised as something else to distract with outrage, from the $$$ going down the rabbit hole! Why couldn’t it be both / all of them? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/150 "2020-09-18T21:48:22Z")
Subjecting people to unnecessary surgery is more than mere profiteering. It’s abuse, plain and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/151 "2020-09-18T21:56:29Z")
^ This. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/152 "2020-09-18T22:10:06Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > > [@elbows](#): > > > > Misogyny, racism, eugenics? Profiteering straight up! Disguised as something else to distract with outrage, from the $$$ going down the rabbit hole! > > Why couldn’t it be both / all of them? - A moral person would have billed for the work without actually doing any of it. 💰 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/153 "2020-09-18T22:51:49Z")
Uh, welcome to the Straight Dope. We encourage you to read at least the first few posts, and the [last few posts](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/124), and maybe some of the relevant-looking sources, before jumping in. I agree with **RitterSport**. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2020, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/154 "2020-09-18T23:38:41Z")
I didn’t mean to imply, nor did I say, it couldn’t be both or that it wasn’t abusive. It’s clearly so. I just think the real driving force is the $$$, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2020, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/155 "2020-09-19T01:09:44Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Misogyny, racism, eugenics? Profiteering straight up! Disguised as something else to distract with outrage, from the $$$ going down the rabbit hole! But fomenting outrage as a distraction from the fraudulent profiteering seems foolish. Foment enough outrage, and eventually somebody is going to start Asking Questions – exactly what we see happening now in this case. Much better to foment more innocuous distractions to cover your profiteering. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2020, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/156 "2020-09-19T11:44:33Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I agree with **RitterSport**. Uh oh… 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/157 "2020-09-19T21:14:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > What do you feel are the values that motivate evangelicals? Evangelical Trump voters are motivated by their desire to hurt people they think are somehow “other”. Other races, other nationalities, other religions, just other, people who are not them. Trump has never made a secret of his willingness to harm people, and he has always hurt targets that are comfortably outside the evangelical sphere. The cruelty is not a bug, it’s a feature. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2020, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/158 "2020-09-20T00:38:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Right, but it is easier to replace that man than that woman, reproductively speaking. > > Say you have 50 men, and 50 women. > > You sterilize 49 men, none of the women. > > All 50 women can now give birth from the one guy. > > For every woman that you sterilize, you decrease the number that can give birth. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > This is incorrect. For animals such as deer, the females that _would_ have been impregnated by the (now) dead or sterilized male will simply be impregnated by another (non sterilized) mal But for humans it doesn’t work that way. There’s no way that _given 100 regular humans_ that sterilizing 49 men would not have an outsized effect on the birth rate, even though it would not be as large as for sterilizing the women. There are of course examples of men who are both exceptionally-fertile and -sexually successful, but outside of that combination, I’d assume the birthrate would crater because women would need to jump through hoops to conceive which not all of them would want to do. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2020, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/159 "2020-09-20T02:19:51Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’d assume the birthrate would crater because women would need to jump through hoops to conceive which not all of them would want to do. I would indeed characterize that as an assumption on your part, in the fullest sense of the word. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660/160 "2020-09-20T15:36:42Z")
If the men didn’t know, and so they just paired off ignorantly, sure. But if the men know, and the women would like to reproduce, then they will seek out the ones that are left that are fertile. If your point is that the men are raping the women, then sure, sterilizing them would prevent them from reproducing, but if that is the case, I think that we should try to go a bit further in actually preventing those rapes in the first place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-sterilizing-ice-detainees-what-the-actual-fuck/920660.md?page=9)