# America is the greatest country on Earth? Delusional **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542 "2019-03-26T02:27:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/182 "2019-03-29T16:10:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Defeats, yes, but not “_defeats of the U.S. military_” which is what I wrote. With twice the aircraft, twice the munitions and even, perhaps, twice the troops the result would have been the same. > > In the context of the thread, the U.S. has the greatest military, but there are many geopolitical problems for which military is not the solution. I think I get what you’re saying but maybe I just view it a little differently. In my world, if the US military cannot bring about the change that it was asked to effectuate, then I see that as a military failure - a defeat. One of the things that militaries try to do with their r&d is to find ways to overcome obstacles that have “defeated” them before. We lost the war in Vietnam because we started losing hundreds of troops every 2-3 days and gory images of dead Americans found their way into our living rooms. We lost because we lost democratic support, and thus the political will to continue the war. Might not have been a military loss in the minds of many, but it was still a loss. So going forward, we learned those lessons and started relying more on air power and restricting media access to the battlefield. Maybe decades into the future (or maybe sooner) the pentagon will develop robotics weapons so advanced that they reduce our casualty count to essentially nil. Who knows? What we know now is that in an open society like ours in which warfare depends on public support, the DoD’s massive advantages in terms of its technological and economic resources are also constrained by our limited tolerance for death. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/183 "2019-03-29T16:11:06Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I’m sorry, should I have said _dom nool_? Is that better? Don’t try to learn Afrikaans swearing off the internet, mate, it’ll just make you look like _'n nat tief_. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Why? That’s a hijack. If someone wants to talk about a country being an economic superpower, why would you counter their statement by pointing out their weak military? I pointed out the political side of being a superpower in response to _your_ “but…but… the politicians…_Neue Dolchstoß_!!” excuse-making, not _Chimera_’s original post, where merely pointing out that Afghanistan was a fuckup was sufficient. rebuttal. Similarly, if someone wanted to argue that US military adventurism played no role in its current status as an economic superpower, I’d correct them. I wouldn’t dispute that it was one, although if someone did say it was a “Economically, the _unchallenged_ superpower”, I’d dispute that, too. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/184 "2019-03-29T16:15:49Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I know it isn’t as prestigious as Wikipedia, but the [Encyclopedia Britannica](https://www.britannica.com/topic/superpower) Aaw, quaint, you think it’s still last century…gonna cite Encarta next? I’m happy that [Wiki’s take on this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpower#Terminology_and_origin) cites enough published and professional sources. But by all means, pick this idiotic molehill to make your stand, since arguing over “oust” was clearly such a win for you… ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/185 "2019-03-29T16:17:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Aaw, quaint, you think it’s still last century…gonna cite Encarta next? > > I’m happy that [Wiki’s take on this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpower#Terminology_and_origin) cites enough published and professional sources. But by all means, pick this idiotic molehill to make your stand, since arguing over “oust” was clearly such a win for you… Are you still here? Are you not too busy living in THE unchallenged rape capital of the world? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/186 "2019-03-29T16:19:37Z")
The real answer is the numbers of people from outside who have always wanted it to be, and for many it was. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/187 "2019-03-29T16:21:45Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Are you still here? Are you not too busy living in THE unchallenged rape capital of the world? Umm, is that supposed to hurt _my_ feelings? Talk about “blame the victim”. But I guess if you don’t have an argument, blind raging flailing at anything that might hurt looks like actual fighting. Again, not a tactic unknown to the students of modern geopolitics… ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/188 "2019-03-29T16:28:52Z")
Hey, **Bear\_Nenno** and **MrDibble** , if y’all get a room that would Make This Thread Great Again. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/189 "2019-03-29T16:38:47Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Again, not a tactic unknown to the students of modern geopolitics… Why do you keep saying that? Do you think I’m a poli-sci major? I have a Masters in Aerospace, not politics. Or are you just slinging shit until you find something that sticks? I wasn’t “blaming the victim”. I was just pointing out what a shit hole your country is. This is a thread about what makes (or prevents) a country from being the greatest. I think its relevant to say that South Africa has got to be on the very bottom of that list. This is as pointless as arguing with a child. I know you are dying to have the last word, so go for it. I will not be replying in this thread further. I mistyped your name and I apologized for it. And you acted like an absolute asshole over it. This was exactly the kind of trap I wanted to avoid. I’ve given a relevant reply to the OP, and I tried to show you where your arguments are full of straw men and non sequitur. You don’t care to listen. So go ahead and call me another name or talk about America’s weak military. The floor is yours. I’m out. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/190 "2019-03-29T16:56:45Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Why do you keep saying that? Do you think I’m a poli-sci major? No, clearly not. But your debate tactics have a certain…geopolitical familiarity about them. You argue like America does “greatness” > [@](#): > > I wasn’t “blaming the victim”. Just waving rape in the face of a rape victim, nothing to see here. Just civility in action… > [@](#): > > I was just pointing out what a shit hole your country is. Which should matter to me because…? > [@](#): > > I think its relevant to say that South Africa has got to be on the very bottom of that list. Only if anyone actually raised it as an example of greatness. Otherwise it’s just your pathetic attempt at another personal attack, another one you don’t have the sack to own. Pathetic coward. > [@](#): > > I mistyped your name Sure, buddy… _makes wank-off motion with hands_ > [@](#): > > and I apologized for it. And I didn’t accept your cowardly arse-covering. Yes, we’re all up to speed… > [@](#): > > And you acted like an absolute asshole over it. Not so nice when it’s done back to you, isn’t it, you spineless knob > [@](#): > > This was exactly the kind of trap I wanted to avoid. “What did Uncle Sam say about Afghanistan, Alex?” > [@](#): > > The floor is yours. I’m out. Craven. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/191 "2019-03-29T17:08:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Craven. Discussion of Wes belongs in Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![Clarette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Clarette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarette)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/192 "2019-03-29T20:32:40Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Sorry. But I’m really tired of this rhetoric. Don’t ever apologize for calling out Dump’s ugly rhetoric. I agree with you entirely and have posted similar (and longer) comments elsewhere, with links to metrics that show how the US falls short in every measure of what most people consider a good life: healthcare availability; healthcare outcomes; cost of healhcare per capita; education; pollution; percentage of the pop. in poverty; percentage of the pop. that has fallen into poverty; wages; job stability; parental leave; paid vacation time; self-reported happiness; etc. As is the case with every insecure weirdo the world over, boasts of “I’m the best / My \_\_\_\_ is the best” are always a clue to massive insecurity in the person and to the complete falseness of the claim. And, no sane or stable or healthy person gets hung up on “Am I the best? Is my \_\_\_\_ the best?” Adults can look dispassionately at themselves and their institutions, assess the strengths and weaknesses, and work on improving the weaknesses. I am so frickin tired of this chest-thumping nonsense, not least bc it’s a huge impediment to those in power working to improve where improvement is needed. It’s tragic that the people in charge of the US – and the many stunted humans who elected them – are so unwilling, or unable, to cope with complexity that they instead hide behind a cloak of simplicity: a one-note, 1-D lie that the US is the greatest. ---
**Author:** ![Clarette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Clarette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarette)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/193 "2019-03-29T20:38:51Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Obviously America is the greatest country on Earth. Sheesh! > … > > Only in America. First I thought you were serious, then I thought you were being sarcastic, and now I’m unsure. If you were being serious: Uh, every other developed democracy in the world – and they all rank higher than the US with regard to healthcare (cost, availability, outcome); education; job stability; paid leave; pollution; percentage of the pop. that is poor and/or incarcerated; self-reported happiness; etc. I’m not proud to be an American these days, but I’m a profoundly patriotic American, in that I know my country could be far better and I _want_ it to be far better; I know it has the resources (financial and otherwise) to become far better, and is theoretically grown-up enough to face valid criticisms about its problems, because an honest appraisal is the 1st step toward improvement. To love someone or something is to want it to be its best; the US is far from its best. ---
**Author:** ![Clarette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Clarette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clarette)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/194 "2019-03-29T20:58:55Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > For many of us, America genuinely is far ahead of any other country. There is no replacement–really, no other place in remotely the same league–as Silicon Valley, if you’re in the computer industry. Canada may be great, but no one goes there to make it big (or even make it little) in computers. Canadians come here (and in great numbers). And they land good enough jobs that great healthcare is just one of the many perks. I happen to think that everyone should have great healthcare, not just those who were lucky enough to get great jobs (and if you think that luck dons’t play a huge role in everyone’s life outcome, then nothing I can say will convince you, but it so fuckng does – as in, were you born smart? were you born smart in ways that pay well? were you born into a stable family that encouraged you? were you born into the middle class or above, such that lots of resources were available to you even if your family was crap?). And: One of my sisters worked in Canada for a year, and her health coverage was so good that her meds there cost her less out-of-pocket than they cost here wholesale (our father was a pharmacist). And: 200mil Americans, or more, work in industries that aren’t centered in one city/region – you can be a great writer, teacher, attorney, mechanic, CPA, etc. anywhere. For ex., some of the greatest contemporary writers are lifelong Canadians (or Brits, or French people, or or or or). And with regard to immigrants: Those from Central America come here largely because it’s closer than Canada, and partly because the US is home to large, established networks of immigrants from similar backgrounds (as is the case with immigrants from all nations – the US has 9x the population of Canada _and_ it used to bill itself as a nation of immigrants, so of course its established immigrant communities from Asian and African nations are bigger, which is a plus for any new immigrant). America is broken for most people who live here; it’s sad that you won’t see that, because seeing it is the 1st step to making America what it could be: an economic engine for _all_; a place with great education, healthcare, and pollution controls; a wise, just, stable nation where people with all kinds of talents can do great work and treat others with kindness and compassion. And, if you think that increased poverty, rage, and despair in America aren’t your problem, think again – French revolution, Russian revolution, Nazi Germany … For your own safety and prosperity, you should want a stable nation. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/195 "2019-03-29T23:09:28Z")
Sorry, but the rational decision is to move to whatever country one finds being the best. Not telling anyone gtfo, I’m saying that you picking whatever metrics you think makes a country great is largely meaningless unless you commit. To quote the Dude, well, that’s just like your opinion, man. For it to be anything more than internet message board wanking, it needs actual action for it to have any meaning. And again, if you look at the opinions of those voting with their feet, on an absolute as well as proportion of population basis, the answer is USA. I understand you don’t like our healthcare system. Are you moving to Sweden? Is anyone? There’s a lot more Swedes leaving that healthcare system to come here, so apparently healthcare is not the metric they picked. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/196 "2019-03-29T23:34:04Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > Sorry, but the rational decision is to move to whatever country one finds being the best. Not telling anyone gtfo, I’m saying that you picking whatever metrics you think makes a country great is largely meaningless unless you commit. To quote the Dude, well, that’s just like your opinion, man. For it to be anything more than internet message board wanking, it needs actual action for it to have any meaning. And again, if you look at the opinions of those voting with their feet, on an absolute as well as proportion of population basis, the answer is USA. I understand you don’t like our healthcare system. Are you moving to Sweden? Is anyone? There’s a lot more Swedes leaving that healthcare system to come here, so apparently healthcare is not the metric they picked. This is insane. The notion that any significant percentage of people are freewheeling unrooted people with no ties to people, places, property, or support networks is blatantly and obviously false, and the notion that one can with casual ease find a place to alight anywhere they choose where they can live in comfort and stability is also a delusional pipe dream. When I hear somebody making this sort of argument -in _either_ direction, “I’m going to leave!” OR “If you don’t like it, leave”- I immediately conclude that the person making it is an idiot. And the argument “you haven’t left it, therefore my country is the best” is idiotic bullshit on the highest order. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/197 "2019-03-29T23:53:22Z")
It isn’t that you haven’t left it, it’s that people from places which by your metrics should be greater, are coming here. In other words, if Americans are not moving to Belgium, and Belgians are moving to America, any assertion that Belgium is greater than America makes zero sense. Lather, repeat for any country you think greater than the US. Also, again, greatest doesn’t mean a place _you_ like for whatever reason. It doesn’t mean the best possible. It means greater than other countries. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/198 "2019-03-30T01:17:44Z")
So which country is “greatest”? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/199 "2019-03-30T01:36:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > So which country is “greatest”? Just google it. The US cracks the top ten occasionally, but Sweden, Denmark, Canada, UK, Australia, Finland, etc. are always ahead. Always. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/200 "2019-03-30T02:55:06Z")
2018: 45,000 canadians move to the US. 7,500 Americans move to Canada. Either the US is a better place to be - or you guys are somehow managing to export idiots. Pretty sure similar disparity for Sweden Denmark etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-greatest-country-on-earth-delusional/831542/201 "2019-03-30T04:38:58Z")
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