America is the greatest country on Earth? Delusional

We are not there to “conquer” Afghanistan. We are training their military, not fighting it. And besides, Afghanistan is full of individual villages who give zero fucks about who is in charge of their weak central government. As far as they’re concerned, they answer to the village elders, their imam and their god. There is no nationalist identity. The Afghan borders are a meaningless concept to the majority of its citizens. The country cannot be “conquered” in the since that one government takes control of it with military force, because even it’s own government has never fully controlled it.

But that’s all besides the point. Struggling with an insurgency does not negate the fact that the United States is a military superpower–the absolute strongest in the world by orders of magnitude. And that has little to do with nukes. Look at the number of trained personnel, the equipment, the global projection, the logistics capabilities, our carrier groups, our airborne brigades, etc.

I don’t even see how you can debate this. Regardless of whether American is the greatest country on Earth, the simple fact is that (for better or worse) it currently has the most powerful military. If we wanted to actually destroy Afghanistan, it would not be difficult even if restricted to conventional means. We have enough bombers and conventional munitions, and enough maneuver brigades to wipe out the entire country, and go house to house and kill every last person. That’s actually a lot easier than trying to fight an insurgency while avoiding civilian casualties. Total destruction of the country was never the mission. We literally started that war on horse back, and there was never a massive bombing campaign set out to level Kabul.

I guess I imagined Operation Enduring Freedom, then…

While I agree, Afghanistan is a NATO mission. The US isn’t alone there.

I agree completely. I’m just pointing out that “most powerful” is not a great metric when you can’t even conquer the shittiest 'stan. The US went into Afghanistan to oust the Taliban, not “train the local military”. Gosh, look who’s still around in 2019…

Doesn’t matter - the question under discussion there is how great the US military is - whether part of a coalition or not, we can still evaluate their performance.

Unless your argument is that the Canadians and Brits etc are holding the US back.

The greatness of America is an American meme which I find less offensive than some other people do:)

Here’s the thing. American’s know that America is the greatest country on earth because, as they all know, America is the greatest country on earth.

Australians know that Australian is the greatest country on earth because we don’t think we are better than anyone else…

… but you certainly don’t think anyone’s better than you, right?

So would you consider Afghanistan to be a “great” country? I don’t follow your logic.

No, you’re just ignorant of it’s intended purpose. And regardless, Operation Enduring Freedom ended over FOUR years ago. There are two ongoing operations in Afghanistan–Freedom’s Sentinel and Inherent Resolve.

It isn’t fair to measure the “greatness” (whatever that even means) of a military by pointing out things that weren’t accomplished, when those things were never attempted. The US military has never “conquered” Haiti either, but that’s just as irrelevant. It never intended to.

And the Taliban were ousted. They no longer have control over the central government of Afghanistan.

Once the Taliban were ousted, it then became necessary to train the local military and strengthen the Afghani government in order to ensure the Taliban do not retake the country. That mission is still ongoing.

You’re completely ignoring the fact that the entire might of the United States military has never been sent into Afghanistan. It’s ridiculous to say that a military with 1.3 million active duty personnel can’t do something when such a tiny fraction of that strength is devoted to the cause. Troop strength in Afghanistan was under 20,000 for the first five years, jump to 100,000 for two years around 2010, and then back down to less than 10,000 in 2015. It’s remained at or below that level for the last four years. We’re not there to “conquer” anything.

The government of the United States has the most powerful military at its disposal. If it chooses to not unleash the full force of that power, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s still the most powerful. The military doesn’t get to do what it wants. If someone drives a Lamborghini but chooses to drive it below the speed limit, that doesn’t change what the car is capable of. It doesn’t lower the horsepower. And you can’t argue that it’s not really a fast car because it never beat a Ford Focus in a race, if it never ever tried to race the Focus in the first place.

No, the statement you’re arguing against was “We are THE unchallenged superpower.” That is a true statement. The military might of the United States is unmatched world wide. We have over 2.3 million personnel (including reserves and NG), close to 14,000 aircraft and 19 carrier strike groups. The #2 and #3 militaries (Russia and China respectively) have one each. We have over two thousand fighter aircraft–three times as many as Russia and twice as many as China.

This strength of the US Military really isn’t debatable. What’s debatable is whether being an unmatched military superpower actually makes the US a great country, or whether it’s even a positive attribute at all. But the original statement made by Chimera? It’s silly to debate that simple fact.

It’s not the coalition “holding back” the military. The United States government limits the use of force and military strength in Afghanistan. And it’s their right to do so, as United States doctrine maintains civilian control of its military. If someone wants to keep their big dog on a leash, that doesn’t negate what the dog is capable of once released.

Hey! When you are the greatest country in the world you don’t have to take responsibility for your mistakes and failures. That’s what being great is all about.

I’m not sure how any country could be considered the “greatest,” when you can’t get five people together to agree on what defines greatness in terms of a nation.

That is exactly why any country can be considered the greatest, at least by someone.

Clearly. It’s simple - how “great” can you be if you can’t even conquer the obviously not-great?

You’re saying it *wasn’t *to oust the Taliban?

OK, so the US only started being great 4 years ago? Or did you have some other point there?

Oh, yeah - “Mission Accomplished! Pay no attention to the ongoing operations behind the curtain!”

You’re claiming the US never attempted to oust the Taliban?

Oh, this is going to be a “definition of ousted” argument, is it? Because by my lights, any movement that still threatens 70% of a country and can kill in the national capital with relative impunity is not meaningfully “ousted” in any way.

No, I’m not. It’s irrelevant.

You seem to think I equate “most powerful” with “great” when I clearly don’t.

…and Afghanistan is a failed challenge for that superpower. My point stands. “We are THE unchallenged superpower” is just “We are so great!” in different words.

America is indeed the greatest country…in which Trump can be himself.

“America is the greatest country on Earth” is just current American English for ‘I am proud of where I am from’. Nothing inherently wrong with it, and it’s not an opinion facts can sway.

Yeah, it’s bold at best and probably obnoxious, but aren’t we as a people?

Nitpick: It may not diminish your main point, but after 17 years of war the U.S. appears to be throwing in the towel on its campaign against the Taliban. U.S. and Taliban share a common friend (Pakistan) and a common enemy (Da’esh). The Taliban controls about 35% of Afghanistan right now, I think, and this will probably grow after Trump’s planned withdrawal.

Nixon sought “Peace with honor” in Vietnam. The U.S. has set its goal lower in Afghanistan: “Defeat without humiliation.”

Uh, you’ve never heard of Jean Chrétien ? The phrase Le Canada est le plus meilleur pays du monde (literally: “Canada is the most best country in the world”) is generally attributed to him.

To be fair, though, the fact that one person – even the PM – said something is not the same as it being a sort of national anthem. Which it does tend to be in the US. If asked, I would readily acknowledge that on balance I’d rather live in Canada than anywhere else in the world, and you could extrapolate from that a similar sentiment to what Chretien said, but that doesn’t mean I go around wrapping myself in the flag in blind oblivion to the things that are wrong here.

I know that I often tend to be quite critical of the US, especially in terms of specific idiocies like broken health care and unfettered gun violence, and I hope that our American friends recognize those criticisms as being in the spirit of that sign that appeared in the clip from The Newsroom that someone posted: to the question “Is America the greatest country on earth?” the sign said “No, we are not”, and the flip side of the sign said “But we can be”. Every single day I see political machinations – mostly by Republican lunatics – destroying that potential with reckless abandon, and it makes me sad.

Agree. ‘Greatest’ does not imply ‘Perfect’.

He is also the only PM that could be said that he is not fluent in either french or english