# America is the leader of the free world **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921 "2015-11-18T22:16:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@Disgruntled\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disgruntled_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/21 "2015-11-19T00:15:02Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Really? If someone offered you a bowl of candy and you knew most of the pieces were poisoned, would you start snarfing down the candy? > > It is a given that a large number of the “refugees” are terrorists. They’ve already been bragging about how they have [infiltrated European countries](http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees) by masquerading as refugees. But we’re “scared” to take them in. > > Dude, the word is smart, not scared. But Obama’s gonna do his best to get them in here, anyway. No, but I’m not about to go cannibal on syrian refugees either and it’s entirely pathetic to compare human lives to sugary snacks. It’s vile and yes, it’s extreme cowardice. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/22 "2015-11-19T00:22:49Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You’ve already been called on this completely bogus piece of crap. You are repeating ISIS progaganda and doing their job for them. > > ISIS wants the west to stop taking refugees in. You are helping ISIS do their work by spreading their propaganda and lies. > > You’re simply a fucking terrorist supporter. You are totally right and \*\*Clothahump \*\*is totally wrong. ISIS is trying to turn run of the mill Muslims against the US by whipping up anti-Muslim sentiment in the US and Europe. ISIS could easily sneak terrorists into the US using student or work visas; there is no reason for them to use the migrant stream for this purpose as it is slow and unsure. But if they can get us to declare a war on Islam or a war on Arabs in general, then they have won. Right now the majority of people in the middle east are against ISIS, but this could change with the typical Republican Jingoistic strategy toward ISIS (i.e. all Arabs are suspect and we should nuke them till they glow and shoot them in the dark). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/23 "2015-11-19T00:29:20Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Really? If someone offered you a bowl of candy and you knew most of the pieces were poisoned, would you start snarfing down the candy? [Didn’t you already do this metaphor?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18869792&postcount=209) [And didn’t we already eviscerate it?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18869816#post18869816) > [@](#): > > It is a given that a large number of the “refugees” are terrorists. They’ve already been bragging about how they have infiltrated European countries by masquerading as refugees. But we’re “scared” to take them in. Well, if you can’t trust ISIS at their word, who _can_ you trust, am I right? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/24 "2015-11-19T00:31:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, if you can’t trust ISIS at their word, who _can_ you trust, am I right? Exactly. **Clothahump** repeats terrorist propaganda like it’s gospel. I find it disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/25 "2015-11-19T00:37:09Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > NATO guidelines suggest spending 2.0% of GDP on defense. > > The U.S. spends 4.4% of GDP on defense, only the UK, Greece and Estonia hit or exceed the 2% recommendation threshold. Canada spends 1%. France and Turkey are both at ~2.2% based on at least one set of numbers I’ve seen. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > A country as rich as France should be capable of conducting its own activities in a region like the Middle East. Well, it currently is. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/26 "2015-11-19T00:38:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > [And didn’t we already eviscerate it?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18869816#post18869816) Technically, it can’t be eviscerated as **Clothahump** has no guts. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/27 "2015-11-19T00:42:12Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > France and Turkey are both at ~2.2% based on at least one set of numbers I’ve seen. I’m going off [this](http://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-calls-for-rise-in-defence-spending-by-alliance-members-1434978193), maybe it’s out date, even though it’s only from five months ago. > [@](#): > > Well, it currently is. Not really, they’ve been bombing ISIS for like ten days and when you see their President bitching at us to ramp up the war it’s obvious they aren’t actually doing what they’d want in the Middle East, if they were they’d not be asking us to do it for them. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/28 "2015-11-19T00:48:13Z")
And plus, my focus on spending at least was more focused on Canada, which is very low on the list of NATO countries by spending as a portion of GDP. France (if they truly have gone above 2%) was the next highest spending country after Estonia (the lowest country that was meeting the 2% threshold, at exactly 2%.) My point for France is, regardless of their spending, they’re wanting the United States to essentially engage in escalated military activity because they either lack the resources to do it themselves or they simply don’t want to spend said resources. There needs to be a point where if European countries want to engage in overseas military activity they need to commit to increasing their military spending as a percentage of GDP. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/29 "2015-11-19T00:55:49Z")
I know this isn’t Great Debates…but I did not expect to see a bad Facebook meme used as an anti-refugee argument. When can I expect to see the one about rattlesnakes? \>.\< ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/30 "2015-11-19T00:57:24Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It is a given that a large number of the “refugees” are terrorists. They’ve already been bragging about how they have [infiltrated European countries](http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees) by masquerading as refugees. But we’re “scared” to take them in. I know, right ? And radical socialists and bomb-throwing anarchists, too. They come only to cause trouble and destabilize our god-given society as best they can. It’s all part of their evil global plot. Oh, wait, no, I’m sorry, [that’s the Jews and that was 1938](https://www.timeline.com/stories/syrian-refugees-world-war-II-jews). Carry on. [QUOTE=Martin Hyde] I mean, I don’t care if we take 50,000 Syrian refugees from a safety perspective. My concern is more along the lines of why is it our responsibility? [/QUOTE] Because these people need our help, and we can easily afford to give it. Simple as that. Besides, don’t you guys have some sort of greenish statue somewhere or other, with a poem underneath it ? You must have heard of her, holds a big torch, probably doesn’t have any underwear underneath the toga on account of she’s really French ? What’s the poem say, again ? I think it’s some sort of mission statement. > [@](#): > > These Arab states sell oil that is largely guaranteed a place in the market because the United States has committed to keeping the Straits of Hormuz open in past periods of Iranian fits of rage at great cost to us. **We get nothing in return** (other than wealthy gulf state residents funneling millions to ISIS while their governments ignore it.) (emphasis mine) Outside of, y’know, massive quantities of oil without which society and the economy would revert to its state circa the 1700s. Details ! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/31 "2015-11-19T01:03:07Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I mean, I don’t care if we take 50,000 Syrian refugees from a safety perspective. My concern is more along the lines of why is it our responsibility? I’m tired of the U.S. stepping up to the plate all the time. I don’t really care if you make the argument we’re responsible or not responsible for the Syrian civil war. Foreign relations should be about the best interests of _your_ country, not adherence to ideals almost no other country cares about. Y’all are harping on **Clothahump** , but at least he’s scared. Martin here is saying he doesn’t think there’s a security problem. He’s not scared, and he’s not giving any downside. It’s literally just “It’s not happening to us. Why the fuck should we care?” I get people like **Clothahump**. He’s scared, and there are people out there that are playing right into that fear. He’s emotionally attached. He has an inherent distrust of anything liberal. It makes sense that he might ignore the evidence. It makes sense that he’s subconsciously looking for reasons not to accept these people he’s scared of. Hell, it’s an urge I actually had to fight. But **Martin Hyde**? The fucking Objectivist standard that everyone should only do what’s best for themselves? The guy who actually thinks having ideals and morals is a down side? The one who thinks when he sees suffering “Not my problem”? Hell, even Objectivism understands humanitarianism to some degree. It twists itself in knots to allow for people to help other people out, if that’s they consider to have value. Rand herself advocated for humanitarianism and argued it fit her idea of rational self interest. **Martin** here doesn’t even have that. He’s given me two types of people that I can be less angry at, because at least they think they’re doing what’s right. So, thanks, I guess? You are quite well named, **Mr. Hyde**. Would that we could change you back. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/32 "2015-11-19T01:16:24Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Really? If someone offered you a bowl of candy and you knew most of the pieces were poisoned, would you start snarfing down the candy? > > It is a given that a large number of the “refugees” are terrorists. They’ve already been bragging about how they have [infiltrated European countries](http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees) by masquerading as refugees. But we’re “scared” to take them in. > > Dude, the word is smart, not scared. But Obama’s gonna do his best to get them in here, anyway. Chickenshit pissant coward. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/33 "2015-11-19T01:35:26Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > When can I expect to see the one about rattlesnakes? Which states aren’t letting them in? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/34 "2015-11-19T01:43:28Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > IForeign relations should be about the best interests of _your_ country, not adherence to ideals almost no other country cares about. This country was founded on ideals that it still touts to the rest of the world as being admirable, even when they are more aspirational than actual. Taking in refugees is the right thing to do, both for humanitarian and moral reasons. You may discount it, but the U.S. does bear enormous responsibility for invading Iraq and making a place for DAESH (ISIS) to thrive in the process. Not to mention that whining about taking in 25,000 or 50,000 refugees is disingenuous at best, when there are something over 2,000,000 refugees hanging around in Turkey and Lebanon and trying to get into Europe. Rather than worrying about the “best interests” of our country (however you might define them) we should be trying for a foreign policy that doesn’t cover us with shame and embarrassment. This administration is doing better at that than the previous one, but there is a long, long way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/35 "2015-11-19T01:55:28Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Here in Canada we are going to take in 25,000 refugees before the end of the year. Yeah and he is going to make weed legal and everyone is going to sing kumbaya by the camp fire. Sorry, not going to happen Sunshine boy, may desire to take in a certain amount of people, but its not going to happen by the end of the year. I seriously doubt that we are going to take in 2500 in total. I would guess that from your naive attitude toward liberal politicians, that you do not live in Ontario. I would hazard from your said belief in Liberal politicians, that you are not old enough to remember the original Trudeau. At least America is getting rid of its problem in about a year, at best we might hope for is to have a back bench revolt and a vote of no confidence for sunshine boy. You want those people over here, you fuckin pay for it. Otherwise , that individual in Ottawa wants to move 5 divisions of Syrians over here by Christmas, he is going to need the entire Air Canada lift, Our C-17’s and other suitable military lift and and still need to rent more airplanes, all during the Christmas season rush for air travel. We dont have medical people in Lebannon right now making sure that they dont bring over TB or any other illness, They have not set up any kind of arrangement with the relavent people to bring over women and children first, blah blah afterwards. In short he loves making statements, but not so forth coming on details. Dont worry about what Americans think, they are simply gonna pat sunshine boy on the head and send him over to the kids table. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/36 "2015-11-19T02:21:29Z")
Yeah it’s not like we had the whole world bent over a kitchen sink with our giant nuclear cock ready to pound and we just put it back in our pants, shook hands with everyone, and let them get on their merry way. Go to hell, Canadian prick. You don’t know the first fucking thing about leadership. The post-WW2 global landscape has been the most prosperous and innovative in history. You can trade that for a couple thousand Syrian refugees (and the few dozen radicalized jihadists camouflaged among them) all you want you whiny sack of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/37 "2015-11-19T02:24:24Z")
Such a whiny baby had to create two threads to double the whine. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/38 "2015-11-19T02:27:39Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Largely in the middle, so I prefer to think that it’s just eric. Blame him. That made me laugh out loud and scare the cat! Well done…! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/39 "2015-11-19T02:38:40Z")
Why are there still two versions of this thread? Get your shit together, Mods! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921/40 "2015-11-19T02:48:46Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Which states aren’t letting them in? There’s a chart in [this story](http://us.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/paris-attacks-syrian-refugees-backlash/index.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-is-the-leader-of-the-free-world/737921.md?page=3)