Do you dispute my contention that June 19, 1865 is a false date for the end of slavery in the United States?
It is also a false date for the building of the Berlin Wall and the bombing of Pearl Harbor, which are two other events it wasn’t designed to commemorate.
Do you perchance happen to know what event it was designed to commemorate?
I’m really trying to follow you here…is it the end of slavery in Texas?
I’m having my doubts.
I’ll ignore the personal attack, but what the fuck else does June 19, 1865 mean?
How? By not agreeing that it should be a national holiday? This racial stuff has passed ridiculous and went to plaid, and is unfairly used in these sorts of debates to “win” a position. Is it “crude” to say that my neighbor celebrated his country’s independence by getting drunk and launching fucking fireworks that landed on my house? Many people use celebrations to party. It is your burden to show that my statement was crude or false and back up your implicit assertion that Juneteenth has been some sort of national crusade. It hasn’t.
It would only be a pretend date if it wasn’t actually the date already celebrated by a large part of an entire culture.
That’s really all it is about, that much is obvious.
I don’t think the folks who did the enslaving should get to have a say over the folks who were enslaved. I mean, I know that’s how it still works in America, generally, but that’s not how it should. Especially for Juneteenth.
You only think it’s unfair because you lost.
I know what Juneteenth signifies, and I’m not Black, just someone who tries to be informed about history.
What, exactly, is the problem with having a holiday that emphasizes the shared experience of and largely caters to a particular demographic of people? Be specific.
They celebrated a local date.
I didn’t enslave anyone. Fucking keep Pitting me. How about I send you a bunch of documents that shows that my ancestors never owned a single slave? I’m actually very proud of that.
But I shouldn’t have any say in the federal creation of a national holiday that applies to all people, and my daughter shouldn’t have a say, solely because of our race, and even though our ancestors didn’t, which would be irrelevant as corruption of blood is no longer a thing, she should not have a say, even though her female ancestors had nothing to do with it.
Is the remoteness not apparent? Isn’t the idea that no discrimination based on race is the very thing that people fought for? Your argument perpetuates that. Not mine.
Yet you go on further in this thread decrying that people use a false date. You can’t have it both ways. Slavery in the United States ended on December 6, 1865 - that is a fact. And for you to choose the day it was announced, well then you sir are picking a pretend date just as “bad” as June 19th.
This was discussed upthread. If there is nitpickery between December 6 or December 18, then let’s have at it. Either might have a plausible claim to when slavery ended in the United States.
You know when it didn’t end? June 19.
Aren’t the dates of most holidays pretty much arbitrary? Jesus wasn’t born on 12/25/0001 and He gets crucified and resurrected on a diffent date every year. November 11, 1911 might have been the announced end of World War I but it wasn’t specifically about veterans until the 1950s and they could have picked any day to honor veterans. There’s no good reason why Memorial Day is the last Monday in May. The USA didn’t become an independent nation on July 4th and President’s Day doesn’t happen on Washington or Lincoln’s birthdays. Juneteenth has more historical oomph behind it than the others in that it was the end of slavery in the last place where it was practiced in spite of President Lincoln freeing the slaves on January 1st that year.
Besides, I’d rather have a day off in June when the weather is nice instead of December when it’s cold and dark. And anyway we already get Christmas off in December.
Celebrated it all over the USA.
And none of the Blacks celebrating this year were slaves. Rhetoric’s funny that way.
What, all of them?
Now you’re getting it.
There you go.
Well, you shouldn’t have a say if you were Asian, either, or even African-African. So it’s more solely on what your race isn’t, than what it is.
Well, I’m arguing for the validity of the Juneteenth date based on its currency with African Americans. You’re the one arguing for some remote date that not a lot of people have celebrated with a party since. So one of us is oblivious to remoteness, and it isn’t me.
Saying the White voice is irrelevant is not discrimination. Unless you mean in the mundane secondary “recognition of a difference” sense. But as for the primary sense, naah. It’s not unjust, nor is it prejudicial. It’s just, as it addresses a past inequality, and it’s postjudicial, as it’s based on past experience of Whites’ rationale for interactions with Blacks having nice things.
Need I say any more as to my point as to why this is a false date? 255 posts in the thread and a nice poster comes in and makes this statement because the holiday leads him/her to believe that slavery ended on June 19.
No, it is a real date-It fell on a Saturday this year. If you don’t believe me, check it out yourself:
89dfe930a118a3584e6708029be8937e.jpg (236×305) (pinimg.com)
You can continue to repeat this argument, but the repetition does not add any further validity to it. Presumably if repetition were effective, then the repeated explanations why it’s not a particularly relevant argument against June 19 would have had some effect.
It did not end on December 6 or December 18 either. You see, the reason why you dismissed my earlier post was not the reason why I posted the evidence of what took place in the continental USA or other US territories.
Uh, that is not what he/she said. Only that it had more “oomph”, to mark the celebration, not that it was the end day.
Sure, you can have a say. You’ve had a lot to say in this thread. None of it’s been remotely persuasive, though, so we’re going to stick with Juneteenth. You don’t have to celebrate it if you don’t want to.