# America needs to address its gun hypocrisy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2021, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795 "2021-11-23T06:09:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/321 "2022-09-16T22:22:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have no issue with a ban on sales of “assault weapons”- but it will not and can not do anything significant. Then YTF do you want them banned? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/322 "2022-09-16T22:29:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > My only worry is that a ban will be passed, but mass shootings will continue, and people will demand more. Of course they will continue to happen. Someone with a couple of 5-shot snubby revolvers can kill 10-20 people in seconds. Hell, a guy with a stockpile of loaded muskets could kill a bunch of people in a short period of time. It’s not the type of guns that are causing these travesties. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/323 "2022-09-17T00:10:04Z")
_"I have no issue with a ban on sales… "_- that means I am neither for it or against it. I am neutral. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/324 "2022-09-17T13:42:23Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > It’s not the type of guns that are causing these travesties. But, for reasons totally unknown, the weapons of choice in _mass_ shootings are not a couple of 5-shot snubby revolvers or a stockpile of loaded muskets. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/325 "2022-09-17T14:19:10Z")
Truly, it is a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/326 "2022-09-17T14:34:35Z")
Interestingly enough, guns aren’t even the most efficient way of committing mass slaughter. If someone coldly and dispassionately wanted to make the largest possible number of people dead, fragmenting bombs are deadlier. This was realized as far back as the anarchist movements of the nineteenth century, as well as by twentieth century terrorists. ISTM that rampage gunmen are either acting out psychosis or trying to play out a video game/action movie fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/327 "2022-09-17T14:37:46Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > It’s not the type of guns that are causing these travesties. > > But, for reasons totally unknown, the weapons of choice in _mass_ shootings are not a couple of 5-shot snubby revolvers or a stockpile of loaded muskets. Except they will be if that is all that is available. All you want to do is change the tool used, not confront the root cause. So called “assault weapons” depending on which firearms you put into that classification, only account for 1-3% of all firearm related homicides. You’re tilting windmills. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/328 "2022-09-17T14:46:23Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > ISTM that rampage gunmen are either acting out psychosis or trying to play out a video game/action movie fantasy. Which are factors that need to be addressed. Banning anything isn’t going to cure mass shootings but many can’t get that through their heads. The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 people and wounded 17 more using a Glock 19 compact and a .22 caliber Walther hanguns with 15 and 10 round magazines. The current “assault weapons” ban in Congress doesn’t touch either one of those. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/329 "2022-09-17T14:50:23Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > All you want to do is change the tool used, not confront the root cause. I do? 'Cause I can’t remember ever taking a position on the subject here and in meat space I don’t know exactly where I stand on the issue. I would love to point out the hypocrisy of the anti high capacity magazine ban side where they are an absolute necessity for the ““good guys with guns”” and banning them would be crippling their ability to defend themselves because mag changes are so difficult but also banning them would have no effect on the ““bad guys with guns”” because mag changes are so easy. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/330 "2022-09-17T16:22:49Z")
Guys, it’s the video games and heavy metal music that’re at fault. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/331 "2022-09-17T18:11:30Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Guys, it’s the video games and heavy metal music that’re at fault I thought it was the comic books. Seriously though, it has to be remembered that public shooting rampages are still extraordinarily rare statistically. But it feels like it’s everywhere and constantly because we’re a nation of 330 million people linked by instant media on an unprecedented scale. If gun massacres weren’t so intrinsically horrifying they’d be a trivial cause of death, somewhere down around how many people choke to death on hot dogs each year. Cultural influences, if they’re to blame at all, would seem to be a pretty weak cause. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/332 "2022-09-17T20:16:36Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > But, for reasons totally unknown, the weapons of choice in _mass_ shootings are not a couple of 5-shot snubby revolvers or a stockpile of loaded muskets. Well, you are incorrect. Many such “mass shootings” _as defined commonly_ are done with handguns etc. You are likely thinking only of the mass shootings that are well publicized. > **[Most Days in the US This Year, There Has Been a Mass Shooting. These Graphics...](https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/national-international/graphics-details-on-the-hundreds-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us-in-2022/3326699/)** > > There have been close to 400 mass shootings in the United States this year, according to the Gun Violence Archive. _There Have Been Over 470 Mass Shootings in the US in 2022 So Far_ _Mass shootings are defined as events where at least four people are shot, either injured or killed, not including the shooter, according to the Gun Violence Archive._ Of those 470, many are just gang shoot-outs, done with handguns. How many of those can you remember? I can think of two, and yes both “Assault weapons”. [https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/gun-facts-and-fiction/mass-shootings/](https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/gun-facts-and-fiction/mass-shootings/) _Depending how the MS data is sliced, events associated with **domestic violence and criminal activity make up** **80 to 88 percent** **of mass shooting incidents** in the U.S. with four or more fatally injured victims (Krouse, William J. and Daniel J. Richardson, [Mass Murder with Firearms: Incidents and Victims, 1999–2013,](http://hsdl.org/?abstract&did=787620) Washington, D.C.: Congressional Research Service, R44126, 2015.)._ [https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/) _Handguns are the most common weapon type used in mass shootings in the United States, with a total of 147 different handguns being used in 99 incidents between 1982 and July 2022. These figures are calculated from a total of 132 reported cases over this period, meaning handguns are involved in about 75 percent of mass shootings._ Note that they used a _much_ less liberal definition of mass shootings, with a “mere” 132 “mass shootings” over 30 years, much less than the often claimed 300+ per year. So, no - _“the weapons of choice in mass shootings”_ are not “assault weapons” at all. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/333 "2022-09-17T20:26:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, you are incorrect. Many such “mass shootings” _as defined commonly_ are done with handguns etc. You are likely thinking only of the mass shootings that are well publicized. So, are you claiming that many mass shootings are done with 5-shot snubby revolvers or a stockpile of loaded muskets? Unless that’s your claim, in which case, I’d really like a cite for that, your “Well, you are incorrect.” is in fact, _you_ being wildly incorrect. > [@DrDeth](#): > > So, no - _“the weapons of choice in mass shootings”_ are not “assault weapons” at all. Please point out where that was the claim that was made. For some reason, in these discussions, it’s always the pro-gun advocates who focus on mass shootings, seemingly as an intentional effort to ignore the ~90% other shootings that the objects they advocate for more of cause. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/334 "2022-09-17T21:07:19Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, are you claiming that many mass shootings are done with 5-shot snubby revolvers or a stockpile of loaded muskets? Nope, ‘Glock 19 compact and a .22 caliber Walther han_d_guns with 15 and 10 round magazines.’ One might start to think the number of pew pews between reloads actually matters to mass shooters. I’d bet there aren’t any _cap and ball_ pistol mass shootings in the last hundred years . . . and if someone does find one it in no way refutes the actual point. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/335 "2022-09-17T21:09:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, no - _“the weapons of choice in mass shootings”_ are not “assault weapons” at all. Good thing I didn’t say “assault weapons” . . . at all. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/336 "2022-09-18T00:43:57Z")
Please do not try tell me you are trying “those are not my exact words, just what I was plainly implying”. . ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/337 "2022-09-18T00:48:50Z")
Those are not even close to my exact words, just what you are plainly inferring. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/338 "2022-09-18T00:54:17Z")
Did you or did you not mean to imply that? Because if that is not what you meant to imply, that _“the weapons of choice in mass shootings”_ were assault weapons, then your post makes no sense. Or did you just decide to stand on your exact words, and not at all what was implied when I posted solid cites? Debate fairly. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/339 "2022-09-18T01:01:14Z")
I very clearly meant to clearly state, _But, for reasons totally unknown, the weapons of choice in mass shootings are not a couple of 5-shot snubby revolvers or a stockpile of loaded muskets._ Let me repeat the important part that seems to be escaping you, the weapons of choice in _mass_ shootings are not **a couple of 5-shot snubby revolvers** or **a stockpile of loaded muskets**. Which was very helpfully corroborated, > [@pkbites](#): > > The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 people and wounded 17 more using a Glock 19 compact and a .22 caliber Walther hanguns with 15 and 10 round magazines. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/340 "2022-09-18T01:16:35Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I very clearly meant to clearly state That is what you stated, however I inferred otherwise and I think that you meant to imply assault weapons. Indeed commonly on these boards people imply other than their exact words, but you do not. I think you are not debating fairly. Faced with irrefutable cites. I am done with you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795.md?page=18)