# America needs to address its gun hypocrisy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2021, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795 "2021-11-23T06:09:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/401 "2022-10-01T20:06:24Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > If NY law requires a license or permit to carry a firearm, why wouldn’t a peace officer ask to see it if they were dealing with someone they knew to be armed? I’m not talking about doing random searches. I’m not talking about random searches either. I’m talking about asking people who are carrying a gun to see their permit. You seem to be evading giving a straight answer here for some reason. So, I ask once again, as simply as I can: If an on duty New York City cop sees a person carrying a gun within city limits, should they stop them and ask to see their permit? Yes or No. > [@pkbites](#): > > How about someone I know to have a felony conviction or a domestic violence conviction and I see them with a firearm. So, only people that you can recognize and remember. I don’t know how big a town you work in, so it might work if its a pretty tiny town, but it gets harder when its a large city. Do you think that every NYC cop can recognize on sight those with a felony or domestic violence conviction? > [@steronz](#): > > How is carrying a firearm probable cause to stop someone in a jurisdiction where carrying a firearm is legal? I’m not sure either, but is seems @pkbites thinks it is. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/402 "2022-10-01T20:22:13Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > If NY law requires a license or permit to carry a firearm, why wouldn’t a peace officer ask to see it if they were dealing with someone they knew to be armed? I’m not talking about doing random searches. Note that the new SCOTUS ruling and the NY law, is about carrying _concealed_ weapons. CONCEALED. Which means the police or some resident will not generally see the gun. A police officer can indeed ask a person who is seen carrying a firearm (maybe their jacket opens and it can be seen for a few minutes) for their CCW. However, why would thy do this on a routine basis? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/403 "2022-10-01T20:35:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Which means the police or some resident will not generally see the gun. I’ve seen people carry concealed, and if you know what you are looking for, it’s generally pretty noticeable. I would assume that cops know what they are looking for. > [@DrDeth](#): > > A police officer can indeed ask a person who is seen carrying a firearm (maybe their jacket opens and it can be seen for a few minutes) for their CCW. So, if a cop notices that a person is carrying a gun, would you say that’s probable cause to ask to see their CCW? > [@DrDeth](#): > > However, why would thy do this on a routine basis? To catch criminals carrying guns. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/404 "2022-10-01T21:01:35Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > How is carrying a firearm probable cause to stop someone in a jurisdiction where carrying a firearm is legal? It’s not probable cause it’s reasonable suspicion. Not the same thing. Some places require a license or permit to carry concealed and in some places, like Minnesota, a license is required to carry openly as well. If a license is required to do certain activities and you are doing certain activities the the police have the authority to see your license or permit. This is how it works in most places in the U.S… ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/405 "2022-10-01T21:09:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > A police officer can indeed ask a person who is seen carrying a firearm (maybe their jacket opens and it can be seen for a few minutes) for their CCW. > > However, why would thy do this on a routine basis? If I see someone walking down the street and I notice he has a handgun in his waistband under his jacket, it’s SOP that I inquire about a CCL. I can’t pick and choose on things like that. I have no discretion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/406 "2022-10-01T23:56:47Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > If I see someone walking down the street and I notice he has a handgun in his waistband under his jacket, it’s SOP that I inquire about a CCL. I can’t pick and choose on things like that. I have no discretion. Well, I had a CCW for about ten years, and no LEO every asked me about it. I guess I kept it better concealed. And this was in CA, where CCW permits are not that common. But you saw the gun, not just a bulge or something that could be a gun? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/407 "2022-10-02T00:54:48Z")
I can walk up to anyone and ask them if they are carrying a gun just like you can. But unless I can articulate that it was reasonable for me to believe they were actually armed, like if I actually saw it or they were printing in an obvious manner, I can not detain them or demand to see their CCL. Anyway, this is getting away from the claim that criminals can go armed and the police can’t do anything about it. Most armed criminals are found out when they are pinched for other crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/408 "2022-10-02T01:18:56Z")
Lol, I bet there’s a much more obvious reason. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/409 "2022-10-02T01:24:18Z")
For what? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/410 "2022-12-07T17:10:11Z")
As an interested observer from a country where owning any kind of gun is either not allowed of very strictly controlled, I would say, judging from our experience, that there is virtually no law the USA could impose that would reduce the number of gun deaths in this century. Criminals in the UK can and do acquire guns, and the deaths and injuries that result, while they do make headlines, are not rare. In a country with more guns than people, it’s certain that those people who wish to will be able to acquire them, even if they are not legally allowed to own one. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/411 "2022-12-07T22:41:56Z")
Not just in the U.S. Police in Ontario busted up a gang and recovered 67 handguns - and only one of them was purchased in Canada. The reat were all smuggled in from the U.S or elsewhere. That didn’t stop Trudeau from announcing a bill to ban handgun sales (bill C-21), and then sneaking in a ban on many hunting rifles into the bill after it had passed second reading. They are even trying to ban pellet guns and Airsoft guns that look ‘real’. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/412 "2022-12-07T23:40:56Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > If a license is required to do certain activities and you are doing certain activities the the police have the authority to see your license or permit. This is how it works in most places in the U.S… Let’s say someone is driving a car and not breaking any laws. Are you saying a cop is allowed to pull over the driver _ **just** _ to see if they have a driver license? “Hmmm, that person is _driving a car!_ But a _license_ is required to drive a car!! I better pull them over to make sure they have one.” ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/413 "2022-12-08T02:07:37Z")
It’s not the same thing although I am well aware it’s splitting hairs. If I see someone driving a car, unless I know them to not have a license or they look too young to have one, I have to take on good faith that they do. Opposite of that if I see someone that appears to have a concealed firearm and I have no reason to believe they are a peace officer, I can detain them and ask for a concealed carry license, Sounds like a double standard and there may be legal precedent for this but I don’t know what it is right now. I’m always perplexed by these jurisdictions that are stopping people in cars to give them gift cards for safe driving. I even spoke with my states Assistant Attorney General and neither if us can understand hiw it isn’t an illegal seizure to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/414 "2022-12-08T05:57:55Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > If I see someone driving a car, unless I know them to not have a license or they look too young to have one, I have to take on good faith that they do. Opposite of that if I see someone that appears to have a concealed firearm and I have no reason to believe they are a peace officer, I can detain them and ask for a concealed carry license, If you can see their firearm then it isn’t concealed and they’re likely in violation of whatever codes govern concealed carry. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/415 "2022-12-08T07:31:46Z")
Not correct. For instance, someone could be “printing” and the weapon is concealed. Or I may have gotten a glimpse of it while they were exiting a vehicle and their jacket lifted up and briefly exposed it but now it’s concealed again. Or the wind blew their jacket open briefly. There are numerous ways to detect a concealed firearm. In my state those things aren’t illegal as open carry is legal without a license. ---
**Author:** ![Whickwithy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whickwithy/32/12802_2.png) [@Whickwithy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whickwithy)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/416 "2022-12-10T21:56:42Z")
Seriously? Does anyone on here know the number of mass killings in the U.S. nowadays? It is difficult to swallow the idea that, “there are guns, therefore there will always be guns. Woe is me.” Heck, a sidearm or a hunting rifle? Sure, maybe that makes sense (though I don’t think so). But, assault rifles? Semi-automatics? Automatics? They have to go. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/417 "2022-12-11T15:57:40Z")
> [@Whickwithy](#): > > But, assault rifles? Semi-automatics? Automatics? They have to go. Assault rifles are already banned. Automatic weapons are already banned. You cannot legally manufacture an assault rifle or an automatic weapon and sell it for civilian use. Currently, the only way that a civilian can buy an assault rifle or an automatic weapon is to buy one that was (1) manufactured prior to 1986 and (2) was registered on the national firearms registry. Since there is a limited supply of these weapons, be prepared to fork over a LOT of money. You cannot under any circumstances go down to ye ol local gun store and buy a brand new assault rifle or an new automatic weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/418 "2022-12-11T16:34:15Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Assault rifles are already banned. Automatic weapons are already banned. You cannot legally manufacture an assault rifle or an automatic weapon and sell it for civilian use. Right. To clarify for @Whickwithy since he seems a little confused: 1. Gun that spits out death so long as you hold the trigger down = illegal 2. Gun that has two settings, one where it spits out death as long as you hold the trigger down and one where it spits out one deathpacket per pull of the trigger = illegal 3. Gun from Number 2 but with the “spit out death as long as you’re holding down the trigger” setting disabled = legal 4. Kit that converts the gun from Number 3 back into the Number 2 gun = technically illegal, but people freely sell them online (and now sell the 3d printer files for them as well). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/419 "2022-12-11T16:36:02Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Currently, the only way that a civilian can buy an assault rifle or an automatic weapon is to buy one that was (1) manufactured prior to 1986 and (2) was registered on the national firearms registry. Since there is a limited supply of these weapons, be prepared to fork over a LOT of money. Or 3) buy any semi-auto gun they want and slap on a $20 conversion kit. But the focus on full auto vs semi auto is misleading anyways. Full auto is useful when you and your buddies are storming a fortified location. One gun blasts the enemy at full auto to make them keep their heads down while the rest of the squad moves up. It’s called cover fire, or suppressing fire. Full auto is NOT used to actually shoot directly at enemies (at least, not if you know what you’re doing) because it is so inaccurate. There may be some specific situations where a criminal with an automatic weapon is more dangerous, but generally speaking a semi automatic is fully capable of deadly violence at a staggering scale. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/420 "2022-12-11T19:22:35Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Gun from Number 2 but with the “spit out death as long as you’re holding down the trigger” setting disabled = legal This is not true. The AR15 simply doesn’t even have that setting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795.md?page=22)