# America needs to address its gun hypocrisy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2021, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795 "2021-11-23T06:09:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/41 "2021-11-23T22:38:10Z")
Absolutely. Due process is a must. If the ACLU doesn’t like a gun law, then that law can’t be good. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/42 "2021-11-23T22:39:50Z")
That’s called Federalism. If you can’t handle it, that’s your problem. This is neither the first or the most significant regulatory and legal issue that people have to navigate due to us being a Federal country. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/43 "2021-11-23T22:50:33Z")
My drivers license is valid in every state, is it not? My car registration is valid in every state, too (of course, if I change state residencies I have a grace period to change both). Then why not a CCW? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/44 "2021-11-23T23:03:21Z")
As I said, gun laws should be primarily handled at the State and Local level. I’m not much interested in answering your “questions” about your car registration or driver’s license. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/45 "2021-11-24T00:05:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If we’re actually requiring people to get officially trained and licensed before they can legally operate a gun, as we do for those who want to legally operate a car, that’s a different story. > > But there’s no practical point to requiring drivers’ ed for non-drivers, or to requiring gun training for non-gun-users. A non-driver who comes across a random car is very unlikely to get into the car and sit behind the wheel. But even if he does, the way that cars are designed inherently prevents him from starting and driving off – he needs the key. But if somebody who has never been taught about guns comes across one, there is a significant chance that they will injure or kill themselves or somebody nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/46 "2021-11-24T00:44:46Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > But if somebody who has never been taught about guns comes across one, there is a significant chance that they will injure or kill themselves or somebody nearby. Yeah, I certainly see the value in teaching everybody at a young age the message that IF YOU ENCOUNTER A GUN, LEAVE IT ALONE AND NOTIFY AN AUTHORITY. But I don’t really view that as “gun training”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/47 "2021-11-24T01:09:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > So you want to force 300 million people to be armed, many of them against their will… “I can have your gun when you put it in my cold dead hands!” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/48 "2021-11-24T06:25:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > My drivers license is valid in every state, is it not? My car registration is valid in every state, too (of course, if I change state residencies I have a grace period to change both). Then why not a CCW? It is in the public interest of my state to allow out of state drivers. It is not in the public interest of my state to allow out of state armed civilians. It is not in the public interest of your state either, but if your state’s electorate is too stubborn to comprehend this and legislate accordingly, that’s no skin off my nose. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/49 "2021-11-24T06:26:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@SenorBeef](#): > > > > So you want to force 300 million people to be armed, many of them against their will… > > “I can have your gun when you put it in my cold dead hands!” A law like this would be enough to drive me to take up arms against this tyranny! ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/50 "2021-11-24T14:05:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > legally owned machine guns by non-police civilians were never involved in a crime for 52 years - a perfect record Wow, I mean, with a record like that, maybe other guns should be treated the same as these were. I’d be in favor of that rather than doing something unconstitutional like banning them. Heck, I’d even walk back the '86 banning so that we have a consistent set of laws. Wouldn’t that be nice, making MORE guns legal? ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/51 "2021-11-24T14:25:22Z")
Very well put, and so very true. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/52 "2021-11-24T14:31:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@Bootb](#): > > > > But if somebody who has never been taught about guns comes across one, there is a significant chance that they will injure or kill themselves or somebody nearby. > > Yeah, I certainly see the value in teaching everybody at a young age the message that IF YOU ENCOUNTER A GUN, LEAVE IT ALONE AND NOTIFY AN AUTHORITY. But I don’t really view that as “gun training”. “But it’s my _right_ to have that gun; why should I leave it alone?” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/53 "2021-11-24T17:57:48Z")
People who have a CCW have a really low crime rate. There is no reason to prevent them from carrying- examples: A woman fleeing a violent abusive husband A diamond merchant who carries tens ot thousands of valuable merchandise A celebrity with a dangerous stalker A witness with a cartel death threat. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/54 "2021-11-24T19:26:36Z")
When you are required to be duly licensed and insured for CCW, then we can talk ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/55 "2021-11-24T19:28:42Z")
How can you tell a good guy with a gun versus a bad guy with a gun? And how can you tell when a good guys with a gun has a lapse of judgement that turns them into a bad guy with a gun temporarily? Bonus question: how can you tell a good guy with a gun versus a little man with a gun in his hand? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/56 "2021-11-24T19:47:48Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I disagree entirely that it is bad faith, but rather resignation, acceptance, and under the principle of harm reduction. Thank you. The progressive left has used a similar approach on other issues - rather then try to “ban” drug use, for example, they may favor needle exchanges or providing locations for people to safely use. It’s based on a recognition that you can’t stop certain things from occurring, so perhaps you should focus on addressing their existence. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > This is a logical mess–“being against a policy that the policy proposer openly admits will cause more gun deaths is worse than the status quo”, what Here’s the thing. I don’t actually know if it will cause more gun deaths. I suspect it will, but there are lots of people who disagree with that prediction. Maybe they’re correct. And if they aren’t, than this still has the advantage of forcing a reckoning on the issue: Does America really want to be such a gun friendly nation? At present, it seems to me that the discussion of guns and gun safety in America has reached an impasse, with no progress on concerns about mass shootings or other armed violence. Maybe those who are concerned about the harm ought to consider a different tact. I propose beginning with the premise that America has lots of guns, supported by an entrenched social and historical tradition, and so gun prohibition of any sort is a nonstarter. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/57 "2021-11-24T19:59:47Z")
Yes, you get a CCW license. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/58 "2021-11-24T20:27:28Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Here’s the thing. I don’t actually know if it will cause more gun deaths. I suspect it will, but there are lots of people who disagree with that prediction. Maybe they’re correct. And if they aren’t, than this still has the advantage of forcing a reckoning on the issue: Does America really want to be such a gun friendly nation? > > At present, it seems to me that the discussion of guns and gun safety in America has reached an impasse, with no progress on concerns about mass shootings or other armed violence. So, since the conversation keeps drifting into well-worn ruts, may I ask you as the OP to clarify the debate in question? Is it: 1. Yes/No on mandatory, in school safety and familiarization? (Ideally with what I asked for, a legal consequences of accidental deliberate use if so). 2. Yes/No on universal carry. And with universal open carry, a removal of all concealed carry unless some form of defined need, possibly with discussion of what said need would be. Or is the thread more about > [@Moriarty](#): > > This half assed gun acceptance that we do is dangerous in my opinion. We will never confiscate the guns that are out there and we will never pass laws a decisively discriminate between appropriate types of guns so I say we need to become the The nation or guns or just something you are used to seeing and something that people don’t mind and understand and are proficient with. Kind of like Brits and a teakettle. So Yes/No on will we ever confiscate existing firearms and/or define appropriate types of guns. Trying not to junior mod, and these are all interesting discussions, any of which could be their own thread, even if some of them are likely just as fixed in opinions as the nation as a whole. I just want to debate specifics! ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/59 "2021-11-24T21:27:43Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > may I ask you as the OP to clarify the debate in question? Is it: > > 1. Yes/No on mandatory, in school safety and familiarization? (Ideally with what I asked for, a legal consequences of accidental deliberate use if so). > 2. Yes/No on universal carry. And with universal open carry, a removal of all concealed carry unless some form of defined need, possibly with discussion of what said need would be. > > Or is the thread more about… > [@ParallelLines](#): > > So Yes/No on will we ever confiscate existing firearms and/or define appropriate types of guns. I am saying that No, the USA will never confiscate existing guns and, further, arguments about defining appropriate types of guns are fruitless. Instead, a more sensible approach to America’s guns is to acknowledge that this is indeed a part of American culture, and to therefore accept that this means that any given American might be carrying a gun at any time. And, to my mind, the most sensible reaction to this reality is that we should be aggressively trying to teach all Americans how to be familiar with, and have a working knowledge of, firearms. (No, that doesn’t mean that everybody HAS to have a gun. But it would mean that it is the very rare person who grows up in America and doesn’t know how to safely unload a weapon) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795/60 "2021-11-24T21:39:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > A woman fleeing a violent abusive husband > A diamond merchant who carries tens ot thousands of valuable merchandise > A celebrity with a dangerous stalker > A witness with a cartel death threat. The best part about our laws is that they ensure that the Husband, Thief, Stalker and Cartel Member have easy access to guns, and we then act like their ability to get guns is an unsolvable problem. The best pro-gun minds in the country have thought about this and decided that it’s impossible to solve, there is no way to stop these people from having an arsenal of weapons at their disposal. These victims, these targets who deserve lives free of the threat of being shot, they don’t get to have that, their solution must be to arm themselves and be ready to kill when they feel threatened. They’re not safe, they’ll never be safe, they just have a chance to fight it out with their attacker. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-needs-to-address-its-gun-hypocrisy/954795.md?page=4)