# America opens the Borders. Then what? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 18, 2019, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431 "2019-09-18T12:29:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/41 "2019-09-19T16:17:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why is it positive to deprive another nation of their workers and consumers, crippling their economy, in order to enrich ourselves? If they had decent jobs at home, why would they be coming to the US to pick lettuce and wash toilets? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/42 "2019-09-19T16:51:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > But, here’s the thing. For every American farmer who commits suicide, his farm can now go to Monsanto, who… using their Trump-given tax breaks… can now turn it into a truly profitable enterprise, enriching the 1% even further at the cost of, what, 1 dead farmer who wasn’t going to make it without government support in the first place? > > #Winning > #MAGA > #Trump2020 Nice. 'Merica! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/43 "2019-09-19T17:07:08Z")
[Picture of Flounder flashes across the screen, largely to hoots of derision. Then, from somewhere in the back: “We need the dues, man.”] ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/44 "2019-09-19T17:31:02Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > coming to the US to pick lettuce and wash toilets? Not just menial labor. If as the OP suggest, the borders were completely open to everybody, there would also be an influx of doctors and engineers and all other professions. There are currently about 1.5 million such foreign citizens in the US,who had to apply for visas to enter the country for a temporary stay. ( [420,000 people working on H1b visas](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/nri/visa-and-immigration/three-fourths-of-h1b-visa-holders-in-2018-are-indians-us-report/articleshow/66289772.cms) which expire after 3 or 6 years and [over a million university students](https://www.iie.org/Why-IIE/Announcements/2018/11/2018-11-13-Number-of-International-Students-Reaches-New-High) using F-1 visas which expire after graduation. If there were no border controls and no visas, there would be many more, and the invisible hand would affect other labor markets,too. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/45 "2019-09-20T19:00:44Z")
Both your scenarios mention keeping out the terrorists and bad guys. How do we vet all the immigrants if they can come into the country at will? Would we just wait and see if they commit crimes, and deport them if they do? How do we keep them out if they are deported? Would immigrants be eligible for [SSI](https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/ssi-eligible/)after they have been in the country for a month? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/46 "2019-09-20T19:07:19Z")
Your scenario, your call. Really, ignore the prologue and answer the question at the end of the OP based upon what you think Open Borders means. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/47 "2019-09-20T19:20:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Would immigrants be eligible for [SSI](https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/ssi-eligible/)after they have been in the country for a month? > > Regards, > Shodan Have you considered there might be a difference between “Able to come to America visa free” and “Able to collect government benefits”? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/48 "2019-09-20T22:05:41Z")
First thing is that we would have to eliminate the minimum wage in order to combat growing unemployment. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/49 "2019-09-20T22:11:20Z")
Gotta tell you, these predictions are a lot less apocalyptic than the current hubub about immigration implies. Get rid of the minimum wage? I may be incorrect, Omar, but isn’t that something you would support? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/50 "2019-09-20T22:12:22Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > First thing is that we would have to eliminate the minimum wage in order to combat growing unemployment. _Eliminate_ it? I can think of no better way eradicate the lower middle class. And the upper lower class. It would cause the market to settle at the price that the least demanding people will pay, for any and every unskilled and low-skilled position. Those people, for the most part, won’t be white. And seriously, you can’t combat unemployment that way - it won’t cause _that_ many more jobs to open up, since no matter how cheap it to hire them is you don’t need fifty servants/slaves unless you run a farm/plantation. Which means that you won’t reduce unemployment; you’ll just change who’s hired, and whether they can afford housing. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/51 "2019-09-20T22:15:04Z")
Your wages will go down. You won’t just be getting unskilled laborers you’ll be getting people with degrees flying in from India, China, Philippines, and South Korean who will suddenly be competing for American jobs. And you’ll likely see skilled laborers coming into the country to become plumbers and mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/52 "2019-09-20T22:21:34Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Your wages will go down. You won’t just be getting unskilled laborers you’ll be getting people with degrees flying in from India, China, Philippines, and South Korean who will suddenly be competing for American jobs. And you’ll likely see skilled laborers coming into the country to become plumbers and mechanics. This will depend to some degree on what field you’re working in, of course. (And whether you’re making minimum wage, obviously.) Presuming the foreign talent is coming here because we have higher wages, this would also put pressure on the other countries you mention to raise their wages too, lest the US market steal all their talent. One wonders what they’d think of this. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/53 "2019-09-20T23:15:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If open borders is such a boon to a nation’s economy, why haven’t any or many other Western nations done so already? It would be an economic no-brainer, no? Because bigotry is far more important to most people than profit. Hundreds of millions of people in the West would prefer to starve under a bridge rather than let “those people” in. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/54 "2019-09-21T00:01:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because bigotry is far more important to most people than profit. Hundreds of millions of people in the West would prefer to starve under a bridge rather than let “those people” in. Wellll, it’s more complicated than that. Even with all bigotry aside, different countries have different standards of living, and different valuations for different commodities. (Like gasoline! And health care!) Letting cheap labor flow in would mostly help america because we have lots of jobs that people here are too stuck up to do, and the current efforts to crush immigration are hurting those industries. But as has been noted, if borders stayed open it would allow an external workforce to come flowing in to compete for our jobs - without letting us flow into their country to do the same. This would first show itself in the terrible jobs we don’t want, but would start to effect other job markets over time, as wages started to be dragged down towards those countries whose people are visiting us. (It would have to be down or they wouldn’t come here.) The different valuation thing can put undue burden on, say, canadian health care if everyone in the states comes up, gets health care, and goes back home - those using the system wouldn’t be paying taxes into it, draining the country’s coffers. If that becomes a major thing, it could, well, become a major thing. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/55 "2019-09-21T00:03:35Z")
Is there anything in the current tax code that says you can’t decide to, say, different tax rates on immigrants? Equal protection or something? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/56 "2019-09-21T04:36:29Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > But as has been noted, if borders stayed open it would allow an external workforce to come flowing in to compete for our jobs - without letting us flow into their country to do the same. This would first show itself in the terrible jobs we don’t want, but would start to effect other job markets over time, as wages started to be dragged down towards those countries whose people are visiting us. Not really, since those people would be boosting the economy by being here and consuming. Real life doesn’t work like the xenophobes want it to. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/57 "2019-09-21T05:02:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not really, since those people would be boosting the economy by being here and consuming. Real life doesn’t work like the xenophobes want it to. And depressing wages; adding to pollution, water depletion and loss of open land. The 21st century economy needs fewer blue collar workers, not more. Now if these were STEM immigrants… ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/58 "2019-09-21T05:50:28Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > And depressing wages; adding to pollution, water depletion and loss of open land. The 21st century economy needs fewer blue collar workers, not more. Now if these were STEM immigrants… If they were STEM, they’d still be “adding to pollution, water depletion and loss of open land.” Are STEM folk immune from having a carbon footprint, contributing to crowding or polluting? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/59 "2019-09-21T06:58:40Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > If they were STEM, they’d still be “adding to pollution, water depletion and loss of open land.” Are STEM folk immune from having a carbon footprint, contributing to crowding or polluting? STEM folk are worth the pain. Adding millions onto the welfare rolls is moronic and will lower the standard of living to those already here. We have learned nothing from our failed immigration policy of the last fifty years. Smart immigration policy leads to a far better immigrant experience and immigrant acceptance. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431/60 "2019-09-22T02:59:28Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > This will depend to some degree on what field you’re working in, of course. (And whether you’re making minimum wage, obviously.) Legal immigrants in the form of h1b visa holders depress the wages of American IT/IS workers by about 4% by some estimates. To hire an h1b visa holder, the company needs to jump through a lot of hoops to demonstrate that they can’t find an American (or someone already authorized to work in the US) in addition to paying fees. Assuming the government doesn’t ask for a request for more evidence, that is additional proof that the job requires a college degree and an American can’t be found to fill the position, we’re looking at at least $6,000 dollars and that doesn’t include the time HR or some other employee has to spend gathering the right documentation. It might be $12,000 or more once you factor in the cost of the RFE. And that’s assuming the employee gets through the lottery which is only a 1 in 3 chance. Now imagine those barriers are gone. IT/IS from South Korea, India, and China have unrestricted access to work in the US. That’s going to depress the wages of American workers. And you won’t just see those foreign workers coming for the jobs that require a great deal of education. They’ll also be coming for many other jobs. > [@](#): > > Presuming the foreign talent is coming here because we have higher wages, this would also put pressure on the other countries you mention to raise their wages too, lest the US market steal all their talent. One wonders what they’d think of this. Why isn’t that happening now? Currently we get many talented people from South Korea, China, and India especially. And if you think those countries might raise their wages to keep their talent don’t you think our employers might lower their wages because more talent is available on the local market? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-opens-the-borders-then-what/840431.md?page=4)