# America or China ? Which do you choose to be the number 1 superpower ? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 2, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611 "2012-04-02T18:49:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/21 "2012-04-04T07:04:43Z")
From America vs China? America. That doesn’t mean America is my only choice, I’d be perfectly happy with most of Europe, hell, Japan or South Korea would be fine. Some of those I may even want to be #1 even more than America, but in a contest of China vs America it’s no contest. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/22 "2012-04-04T09:31:37Z")
I’d choose “neither”. And I don’t think China is anywhere close to achieving America’s power, nor do I think they or most anyone else _wants_ it. America’s “global hegemony” is a white elephant that gains it little and costs a vast amount of wealth. > [@Leaffan](#): > > Given the state of human rights in China, I hardly think the question needs to be asked. That’s irrelevant to the question of how they (or anyone) would be as a superpower. The US treats its own people much better than China, but its foreign policy has been barbaric. Ethically, America’s foreign policy has been pretty much indistinguishable from that of the Soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/23 "2012-04-04T09:50:57Z")
I am an American that has been living and working in China for the past 4 years, and most of the Chinese that I have talked with do seem to sincerely believe that China will surpass America in the next few years. From the New York Times: “The senior leadership of the Chinese government increasingly views the competition between the United States and China as a zero-sum game, with China the likely long-range winner if the American economy and domestic political system continue to stumble, according to an influential Chinese policy analyst.” [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/world/asia/chinese-insider-offers-rare-glimpse-of-us-china-frictions.html?\_r=1](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/world/asia/chinese-insider-offers-rare-glimpse-of-us-china-frictions.html?_r=1) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/24 "2012-04-04T12:25:13Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > My second thought is that China is hardly a technological and scientific leader. The American’s contribution to the world of science and technology is simply incredible. China needs to step its game up big time if it wants to overtake the US. It’s not quite the backwater many imagine either. In terms of crude measurements like papers published and patents filed it’s had a meteoric rise and some like the Royal Society see china overtaking the US within 2 years ([cite](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12885271)). I can’t see that happening personally, but still. And I’m glad that someone is supporting tech like stem cell research and GE, though I appreciate that that isn’t a positive for everyone. But yeah, I voted US in the poll. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/25 "2012-04-04T16:56:58Z")
Interesting that no one has admitted to voting for China. There are eight votes for it. Would someone like to present the China side to the discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/26 "2012-04-04T18:47:37Z")
China could never do it. they can’t even make a pair of sneakers that doesn’t fall apart in 2 months. No way could they maintain a world-dominating military without improving their manufacturing standards. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/27 "2012-04-05T08:56:38Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > China could never do it. they can’t even make a pair of sneakers that doesn’t fall apart in 2 months. No way could they maintain a world-dominating military without improving their manufacturing standards. Is it bad engineering or bad design? We bring our global products to China, and part of the reason I’m here is ensure they’re built the global way. People will build crap if you let them, or they’ll build crap if the design is crap. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/28 "2012-04-05T10:53:44Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > China could never do it. they can’t even make a pair of sneakers that doesn’t fall apart in 2 months. No way could they maintain a world-dominating military without improving their manufacturing standards. Well, if they’re crap is because mostly they compete on price. I have a couple of chinese-made items in my home that were so badly made as to be basically useless. But I have a hell of a lot more items that work and that I would not have been able to collectively afford were it not for the prices of chinese manufactured goods. It’s interesting how history is kinda repeating. Didn’t people make fun of the quality of Japanese manufactured goods for a long time? I see some of china’s industry making a similar transition to higher quality and the higher end of the market. The question is whether they will eventually head towards a japanese-style stagnation. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/29 "2012-04-05T14:20:34Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I see some of china’s industry making a similar transition to higher quality and the higher end of the market. The question is whether they will eventually head towards a japanese-style stagnation. My comment was about 50% flip (as usual for me), but this is a point worthy of much attention. There is a world of difference between Rising China and post-war Japan. I know just a little about Japanese culture and even less about Chinese culture (to the extent an identifiable Chinese culture even exists). But I believe it can be argued there is a fundamental difference in how they address imperfection. While on an artistic level the Japanese may embrace imperfection as something that makes an object unique, historically significant and therefore valuable; they seem to have realized it is a bad thing with resepect to manufacturing and economy. In these arenas, they have focused on perfection in a way that captures their obsession with honor. The Chinese, on the other hand, have historically focused less on ‘honor’ and more on ‘face’. If the truth is ugly, manufacture another that is less so. Tiananmen Square is a good example. Tour guides even today refuse to amit anything bad happened there in 1989, and if pressed will insist it’s anti-Chinese propaganda created by other countries who are jealous of China’s power. The road to perfection involves making mistakes, and then acknowledging and learning from them. I don’t see China adopting that way of thinking. IF China ever got her shit together enough to impose her will on the rest of the world, it would be through sheer force of numbers, as has always been the Chinese way. While this may be effective in the short term, I think the rest of the world would have little patience for the total domination that method would require. ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/30 "2012-04-06T10:11:15Z")
> [@Phnord\_Prephect](#): > > Given the state of human rights in America, I kinda think it does. > > However, as bad as things are, are getting, and can be reasonably expected to get in the not-so-distant future, they’re still nothing like as bad as China is and has historically been in the past, human rights wise. > > The one thing China has going for it is… they’re pretty old. That culture’s been in place a long, long, looong time. If anybody’s in a position to rule for the long haul, it’s them. Because the long haul means integrating technology, and dealing with large crowds of people with limited resources, and ya gotta be ready for both if yer gonna rule the world. > > America, at less than 250 years, is still very very unstable. In a sense, however, that’s kind of the point isn’t it, I mean Democracy (Republic) and all that. And right now, the way I see it, that kind of instability is causing all kinds of problems, and it seems that solving those problems is costing us dearly in terms of good ol’ human rights issues. > > If we can get our shit together, by all means, my vote goes for America. > But if we can’t… well, it’s gonna be hell on earth for us liberal (in the freedom sense) types anyway, so China gets the vote just because they’ve got a much better track record. Much of China’s history was changed or destroyed during Mao’s cultural revolution. I have been in China for more than 4 years, and it can be difficult to find any evidence of China’s thousands of years of history or culture. Many of the historical sites have either been torn down and recently rebuilt, or just destroyed altogether in the name of supposed progress. Educators and intellectuals were targeted and killed during the Hundred Flowers Campaign. I would say that Mao pushed a massive reset button on China’s history and culture and that today’s Chinese culture and history are mostly only a few decades old. “China’s historical sites, artifacts and archives suffered devastating damage as they were thought to be at the root of “old ways of thinking”. Many artifacts were seized from private homes and museums and often destroyed on the spot. There are no records of exactly how much was destroyed. Western observers suggest that much of China’s thousands of years of history was in effect destroyed or, later, smuggled abroad for sale, during the short ten years of the Cultural Revolution. Such destruction and sale of historical artifacts is unmatched at any time or place in human history”. > **[Cultural Revolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution#Historical_relics)** > > The Cultural Revolution, formally known as the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, was a sociopolitical movement in the People's Republic of China (PRC). It was launched by Mao Zedong in 1966 and lasted until his death in 1976. Its stated goal was to preserve Chinese socialism by purging remnants of capitalist and traditional elements from Chinese society. > In May 1966, with the help of the Cultural Revolution Group, Mao launched the Revolution and said that bourgeois elements had infiltrate... > **[Great Leap Forward | Hundred Flowers Campaign and Anti-Rightist Campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_leap_forward#Hundred_Flowers_Campaign_and_Anti-Rightist_Campaign)** > > In 1957, Mao responded to the tensions which existed in the Party by launching the Hundred Flowers Campaign as a way to promote free speech and criticism. Some scholars have retroactively concluded that this campaign was a ploy designed to allow critics of the regime, primarily intellectuals but also low ranking members of the party who were critical of the agricultural policies, to identify themselves. > By the time of the completion of the first 5 Year Economic Plan in 1957, Mao had come to beli... ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/31 "2012-04-06T10:35:27Z")
> [@simple\_homer](#): > > I have been in China for more than 4 years[.] Where at? I’ve been in Nanjing just under a year. > [@](#): > > I would say that Mao pushed a massive reset button on China’s history and culture and that today’s Chinese culture and history are mostly only a few decades old. Much like I said above. And it’s evident in so much of the daily culture. ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/32 "2012-04-06T10:51:44Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Where at? I’ve been in Nanjing just under a year. > > Much like I said above. And it’s evident in so much of the daily culture. Two years in Anhui, and two years in Jiangsu including a lot of time in Nanjing. In my talks with Chinese the daily culture that I have seen revolves around forgetting and ignoring the past and just trying to accumulate as much money as possible for today. Very little evidence of communism, and possibly a more capitalistic culture than anything I have seen in the West. No free health care or education in China, it is all pay-as you-go. It is funny that many of the Chinese people that I talk with tell me that Mao was"70% good" and since 60% is a passing score in China, that makes Mao ok. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/33 "2012-04-06T11:02:06Z")
India before China. They own all the call centres already so have an advantage. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/34 "2012-04-06T11:54:06Z")
Everybody seems to be forgetting that China was (and is) the “middle kingdom”. The current Communist regime (1948-?) is just a tiny blip on the scale of Chinese history. To a chinese person, the middle kingdom exists between heaven (above) and the “barbarians”-which is europe, the USA, etc.-below them. Therefore, by definition, China IS the world power-it can never be anything but THE world power. Now all you barbarians-accept the mandate of Heaven and show proper respect to the Emperor! ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/35 "2012-04-06T12:11:30Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Everybody seems to be forgetting that China was (and is) the “middle kingdom”. The current Communist regime (1948-?) is just a tiny blip on the scale of Chinese history. To a chinese person, the middle kingdom exists between heaven (above) and the “barbarians”-which is europe, the USA, etc.-below them. Therefore, by definition, China IS the world power-it can never be anything but THE world power. > Now all you barbarians-accept the mandate of Heaven and show proper respect to the Emperor! Yes, I am the barbarian in China 🙂 I have had two girlfriends in China, and both times it has had to be a secret relationship. The first girlfriend told me that many Chinese, especially outside the larger cities, consider foreigners to be just the same as dogs, and that if it were known that she was my girlfriend then she would be “less than a dog”. My second girlfriend is a successful lawyer, and she fears that she would be disowned by her family if she is seen with me. She is of the age that she is considered a “left over woman” , and has very few opportunities to find a Chinese partner. Younger Chinese, and those in larger cities, seem more open to relationships with foreigners, but I am almost 50, and I prefer to date women closer to my own age. My first two years in China were spent in very small cities, and almost every woman that dared to walk with me in public was harassed by the locals. The majority of people do not cause any problems for me, but a small racist minority can make life difficult at times. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/36 "2012-04-06T14:18:26Z")
I said China, and for one simple reason: China has never been a superpower, so I have no idea what they might actually be like as a global hegemon. America has been, and they were crap at it. Just completely, unabashedly evil little shits stomping all over the world for their own selfish interests. So my reasoning is fairly simple - China really can’t be any _worse_. They’d be generally overbearing and exploitative, with fundamentally racist underpinnings, you say? I reply “enough about the US, tell me about China” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/37 "2012-04-06T14:58:53Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/38 "2012-04-06T15:02:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > China really can’t be any _worse_. They’d be generally overbearing and exploitative, with fundamentally racist underpinnings, you say? Sure they could. The US at least pays lip service to the Democratic process and, with a few exceptions including an arguably successful attempt at genocide, generally says the rights of the individual are important. No, our actions haven’t always reflected that sentiment. But China has never even suggested it even gives a damn about any of that. > [@MrDibble](#): > > hegemon No relation to Pokemon? I wonder what kind of political doctrine would arise from pokemonic approach? ---
**Author:** ![fc1114](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/41988e/32.png) [@fc1114](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fc1114)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/39 "2012-04-06T15:09:32Z")
WHY do people think America is a country? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611/40 "2012-04-06T15:12:23Z")
> [@fc1114](#): > > WHY do people think America is a country? Used as a single word, it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-or-china-which-do-you-choose-to-be-the-number-1-superpower/617611.md?page=3)