# America : Shut yer hole about being the "Land of the Free". **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436 "2004-07-29T14:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/81 "2004-07-29T16:26:28Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > . Had that not happened, you’d (arguably) still be living in an Empire where the King was the ultimate power. Are you saying Liz is a bloke? That’s just mean 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Achilles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dc4da7/32.png) [@Achilles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achilles)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/82 "2004-07-29T16:28:39Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Pretty worthless xenophobia all round. Do you know what “xenophobia” means? You fucking snot-sack idiot. I’m not afraid of foreigners, or Americans. I don’t even dislike them. I just think that they’re being hypocritical calling the US, “land of the free”. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/83 "2004-07-29T16:32:00Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Nobody mention abortion. Every woman has a free right to this in Ireland, just as long as they make it to nearest boat to Britain. I mentioned it. Funny how **Achilles** hasn’t, though. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/84 "2004-07-29T16:36:43Z")
> [@Achilles](#): > > Yeah - right on ! 40,000,000 people living in poverty - you’re doing a bang up job !! Well, there’s one thing you should know about those forty million: _None of them want to move to Ireland!_ Now hump off and go throw stones at your mother, you underemployed alcoholic gobdaw eejit. ---
**Author:** ![Achilles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dc4da7/32.png) [@Achilles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achilles)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/85 "2004-07-29T16:37:30Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > **Achilles, educate thyself** > > [http://immigration.about.com/od/usborderscustomssecurity/i/IssueUS\_VISIT.htm](http://immigration.about.com/od/usborderscustomssecurity/i/IssueUS_VISIT.htm) From September 2004, the “US-VISIT” program being inplemented by the DHS, will require _all_ visitors to be fingerprinted. [http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/content\_multi\_image/content\_multi\_image\_0006.xml](http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/content_multi_image/content_multi_image_0006.xml) How are so many Americans unaware of what the fuck is happening to their freedom ? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/86 "2004-07-29T16:38:39Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > _None of them want to move to Ireland!_ Well they probably couldn’t afford the air fare. In fairness though, I don’t see them streaming over the Canadian border either. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/87 "2004-07-29T16:47:38Z")
> [@Achilles](#): > > From September 2004, the “US-VISIT” program being inplemented by the DHS, will require _all_ visitors to be fingerprinted. > > [http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/content\_multi\_image/content\_multi\_image\_0006.xml](http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/content_multi_image/content_multi_image_0006.xml) > > How are so many Americans unaware of what the fuck is happening to their freedom ? Our freedom is based on visitors? The hell? Since we’re not getting fingerprinted our freedoms aren’t being infringed upon, are they? I’m still trying to see how being fingerprinted to enter the country constitutes a decay in freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/88 "2004-07-29T16:49:16Z")
Air fare? Why, when the Irish decided their country wasn’t worth a shit-covered piece of blighted potato, they took _boats_. Lousy lazy modern poor people. In any case, I don’t see American refugees washing up on Irish shores, nor do I anticipate such anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/89 "2004-07-29T16:51:39Z")
> [@](#): > > From September 2004, the “US-VISIT” program being inplemented by the DHS, will require all visitors to be fingerprinted. > > How are so many Americans unaware of what the fuck is happening to their freedom ? Hey, well, damn, you’re right. Of course, since I’m a US citizen, I won’t be fingerprinted when returning, so it’s not my freedom that’s being abridged here. But hang on. If you can spare a minute from spraying insults in every direction, **Achilles** , perhaps you could explain: what freedom, exactly, does fingerprinting arriving visitors take away that requiring visitors to carry a passport and photo does not? ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/90 "2004-07-29T16:52:23Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > They swarm to every western country, Ireland included, you fucking prick. But much, much more come to America. Also, we don’t have nearly as much government socialization that falsely lower poverty without actually increasing any wealth in the country. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/91 "2004-07-29T16:53:25Z")
You know, we didn’t pass a law mandating that dry cleaning must be returned in an appropriately patriotic wrapping. The fellow who did the dry cleaning, not the entire United States, is responsable for that. Part of our idea of freedom is the right to be a narrow minded jackass. I cherish that right over what passes for “rights” in Europe. I used to resent that we were more prudish about public nudity than the Germans for instance, until I went to Europe and saw naked Germans. Thank God for America. We are the worst of 17 surveyed nations (just after Ireland) in terms of poverty? In defense of both countries, that tells me that the survey was rather selective, as I am certain there are more than 17 nations that can be classified as very well developed nations. Basically that survey means that out of the best places to live in the world, we rank toward the middle. To Ireland’s credit, this ranking seems to have inspired debate, discussion, and concern in the Irish press. In the United States, this news probably just makes most people think if we kicked out Detroit we’d be on top. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/92 "2004-07-29T16:57:02Z")
Civil Rights? In a country where you have Unionists not upholding their end of the Good Friday agreement, just waiting to return northern Catholics into second class citizens in their own country and reignite civil war? Perhaps the next Orange march might remind you that there are plenty of people in Ireland who’s civil rights haven’t been so jealously upheld as well. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/93 "2004-07-29T16:58:35Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > But much, much more come to America. Also, we don’t have nearly as much government socialization that falsely lower poverty without actually increasing any wealth in the country. America’s a lot bigger, prick. And if you mean by ‘falsely lowering poverty’, we have a lower proportion of our population below the poverty line, then you’re stupider than I thought. That’s not ‘false’, it’s genuine. Scratch that, you couldn’t be stupider than I thought. Prick. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/94 "2004-07-29T16:58:56Z")
So - would someone actually link to the UN Poverty Index for me? Google isn’t actually that helpful. (Lots of specific stories - Ireland Low, SA Lower, etc.)I was wondering about the actual rankings (all 16 countries). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/95 "2004-07-29T16:59:24Z")
> [@Achilles](#): > > From September 2004, the “US-VISIT” program being inplemented by the DHS, will require _all_ visitors to be fingerprinted… > How are so many Americans unaware of what the fuck is happening to their freedom ? Howzit again that if _you_ get fingerprinted, _we_ aren’t free? And I lost you somewhere when you were babbling about official poverty rates and whatever mystical connection that might have to the “land of the free”. I mean, it’s not like everybody sings _“O’er the land of the fabulously wealthy In our Jaguar XKE.”_ And we gots indoor plumbing, too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/96 "2004-07-29T17:00:47Z")
> [@Cluricaun](#): > > Civil Rights? In a country where you have Unionists not upholding their end of the Good Friday agreement, just waiting to return northern Catholics into second class citizens in their own country and reignite civil war? Perhaps the next Orange march might remind you that there are plenty of people in Ireland who’s civil rights haven’t been so jealously upheld as well. (Psst: same island, but not the same country: the North isn’t part of the Republic of Ireland. And that’s constitutional.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/97 "2004-07-29T17:10:50Z")
Okay fine, we’ll change it all. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, and guarantee access to lube’n’dildos, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/98 "2004-07-29T17:11:22Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > America’s a lot bigger, prick. > > And if you mean by ‘falsely lowering poverty’, we have a lower proportion of our population below the poverty line, then you’re stupider than I thought. That’s not ‘false’, it’s genuine. > > Scratch that, you couldn’t be stupider than I thought. Prick. It is false because it comes from income redistribution, not a greater abundance of wealth. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/99 "2004-07-29T17:12:39Z")
The aggregate number of immigrants that come to the United States is far above all other nations, however places such as Australia and Canada probably take in a larger number in relation to their populations. However, does any other developed nation share as extensive a border with a “Third World” nation as the United States? I know Germany and Finland border on much poorer countries, but is the gap comparable? Canada has 5.96 net migrants per 1000 people, as opposed to 3.46 in the United States…which is still an appreciable number. The UK has 2.19/1000 Ireland has 4.99/1000 [http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2112.html](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2112.html) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436/100 "2004-07-29T17:19:10Z")
America ought not to compare itself to other nations to assess whether its freedoms are fading. Other nations are not its standard. Its standard is found here: **We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.** Its greatness and its weakness should be judged by the distance it has moved from that foundation. Every house torn from its foundation will fall to pieces, and America is no exception. If it places friviolous burdens upon the backs of its own people by legislating every aspect of their lives; if it punishes success and rewards failure with schemes of wealth redistribution; if it desecrates the sacredness of its own citizens’ right to give or withhold their consent as they see fit — then it has become indistinguishable from the tyrant that it fought to evade. I do not measure America’s greatness by how much wealth and power it has. These are fleeting things, and over the centuries can pass to other hands. I measure America’s greatness by how vigilant its citizens are in the guardianship of their freedom. When the vigilance disappears, all the rest disappears with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/america-shut-yer-hole-about-being-the-land-of-the-free/257436.md?page=6)