# American accents: "ear" and "air" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 7, 2022, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503 "2022-11-07T10:53:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/41 "2022-11-08T02:42:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@hibernicus](#): > > > > > [@BigT](#): > > > > > > the difference between the vowels in _merry, marry, Mary_ is the same difference as the difference between _met, mat, and mate_. > > > > Not exactly. It’s correct that the difference between merry and marry is the difference between met and mat, their respective vowels being [ɛ] and [æ]. However Mary doesn’t have the vowel of “mate”; no English speaker says “may-ree”. > > Careful about making absolute statements … next thing you know you’ll run into someone who does It’s probably more like “may(o)ry” [mejɚi] than “mayry” [mejɹi]. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/42 "2022-11-08T04:08:09Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > no English speaker says “may-ree”. I know it’s an affectation of the character – and an inconsistently applied affectation at that – but sometimes Jackee Harry’s Sandra would _just about_ pronounce neighbor Mary’s name that way. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wigYv35E4HI/hqdefault.jpg "227 - Mary Compilation | Jackée Harry") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wigYv35E4HI) ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/43 "2022-11-08T04:11:34Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s probably more like “may(o)ry” [mejɚi] than “mayry” [mejɹi]. This is what I pick up, too, when a Mary/marry/merry “splitter” pronounces “Mary”. I hear a first syllable that, for me, is virtually indistinguishable from my own pronunciation of “mare”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/44 "2022-11-08T17:25:08Z")
If you are from the east and you happen to go out visiting Oregon, just do not try to say “Oregon” while in the area, if you can help it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/45 "2022-11-08T17:38:56Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > just do not try to say “Oregon” while in the area, if you can help it. Yeah, for that reason, and that reason only, I try not to speak to people from Oregon any more … or Nevada either. They’re very annoying on that subject. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/167Zs9L0Cbk/maxresdefault.jpg "Nevada or Nevaaada Trump should watch Veep") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=167Zs9L0Cbk) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/46 "2022-11-08T19:08:33Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > The difference between cot and caught is the same as between ah and aw. For people who merge these sounds, they sound the same. This is why pronunciation threads can get confusing. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/47 "2022-11-08T19:15:31Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > If you are from the east and you happen to go out visiting Oregon, just do not try to say “Oregon” while in the area, if you can help it I spent a couple of weeks in Oregon quite a few years ago. Also quite a few years ago, but some time after that, I had occasion to say the word “Oregon” in the hearing of a grocery worker in New York State – I think it was part of a brand name that I was asking him about. He nearly hugged me with joy because I said it right; he was from Oregon and hadn’t heard the proper pronunciation in quite a while. (It’s not all that tricky. It’s Or-e-gun, not Or-a-gone.) ETA: around the same time as I went on the trip involving Oregon, I had a couple of friends who also drove around the country. They stopped at a gas station, once, and asked whether they were in Arkansas yet. Unfortunately, they were . . . (It’s not Ar-kan-sass. It’s Ar-kan-saw. It’s not Kan-saw, though. English is weird.) ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/48 "2022-11-08T19:39:49Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > > > In my Philly accent, Mary, marry, merry all quite different, but the last is exactly the same as Murray. Anyone else find that? > > My mid-Ohio accent has “Mary”, “marry”, “merry” all as /mɛɹi/, while “Murray” is /məɹi/. I rhyme “Murray” with “furry”; do you? [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#Merry%E2%80%93Murray_merger): > [@](#): > > _Merry_–_Murray_ merger[[edit](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/&action=edit§ion=5)] > > The _merry_–_Murray_ merger is a merger of /ɛ/ and /ʌ/ before /r/. That is common in the [Philadelphia accent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_accent),[[11]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-language_vowel_changes_before_historic_/r/#cite_note-FOOTNOTELabovAshBoberg200654,_238-13) which does not usually have the _marry_–_merry_ merger, but its “short a” /æ/, as in _marry_, is a distinct unmerged class before /r/. Therefore, _merry_ and _Murray_ are pronounced the same, but _marry_ is pronounced differently. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/49 "2022-11-08T19:43:14Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3fQwJdXFQlU/hqdefault.jpg "VINTAGE 1967 ARMOUR HOT DOGS COMMERCIAL - KIDS MARCHING & SINGING") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fQwJdXFQlU) Those of you with the cot-caught merger: Do you pronounce the vowel as this man does in “hot” or “dogs”? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/50 "2022-11-08T19:54:24Z")
“hot” - accents with the merger don’t have the “caught” vowel. Everything is “cot.” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/51 "2022-11-08T21:29:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > “hot” - accents with the merger don’t have the “caught” vowel. Where I am from (mergerland), you have that backwards. The “caught” vowel approximately matches the “saw” vowel, which is the pervasive “ah” sound that also occurs in “hot”. I have friends in Wisconsin, who have the vowel differentiation, and to me, their “hot” sounds higher than “caught”, trending more toward “hat” (a more palatized coloring). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/52 "2022-11-08T21:35:15Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Where I am from (mergerland), you have that backwards. The “caught” vowel approximately matches the “saw” vowel, which is the pervasive “ah” sound that also occurs in “hot”. I have friends in Wisconsin, who have the vowel differentiation, and to me, their “hot” sounds higher than “caught”, trending more toward “hat” (a more palatized coloring). When I hear the cot-caught merger, it seems to take, as you noted, various forms. Often, to my ears, the cot-caught have the same vowel that is somewhere in between my Chicago “ah” and “aw”, so, for me, describing it as both having the “ah” in “cot” or the “aw” in “caught” is inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/53 "2022-11-08T21:50:47Z")
I live in Oregon and I had an assitant (would have been called a secertary in the old days), and we were dealing with state and federal salmon hatcheries. One of the largest one was the Willamette hatchery, pronounced something like Will- **AM** -ette. She was from Chicago and there is a town somewhere called something similar but pronounced differently. It was a bit amusing when she would call the hatchery on the phone and I would over-hear, " you aren’t from here, are you, Jean?" ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/54 "2022-11-08T21:51:40Z")
I pronounce Mary and merry the same, with a short e sound. Marry has a short a. Cot has a short o, and caught is pronounced “cawt”. Now I’m wondering if my wife and our kids would pronounce these words the same way. She grew up a few miles up the road, but they were closer to Baltimore than DC. Our kids grew up within spitting distance of DC. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/55 "2022-11-08T22:37:05Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > “Murray” with “furry”; do you? Both merry and Murray rhyme with furry, yes. And very, and flurry, blurry, slurry,… Mary has the tense a that I use in bad, while marry has the lax a I use in sad. And as I said above, bad and sad don’t rhyme for me. One curiosity: When mad means angry, it has the same a as man; when it is Mad, short for Madison, it doesn’t. So I don’t know how to say Mad man, which I think is short for Madison Ave. man. Oh, and Ave. has the same a as Madison, not mad. These quirks are all detailed in the Wiki entry for Philadelphia accent. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/56 "2022-11-09T14:57:42Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > She was from Chicago and there is a town somewhere called something similar but pronounced differently. Wilmette, I suspect (pronounced will-MET, locally). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/57 "2022-11-09T15:05:51Z")
Yeah. Two syllables, no “a” like in “Willamette.” First time I came across wines from that valley, I wasn’t sure if it was to be pronounced “will-MET” or “WILL-uh-MET” so I asked the guy at Binny’s (wine/beer/liquor superstore) and was informed it was “will-AH-mett,” which I wouldn’t have guessed, for whatever reason. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/58 "2022-11-09T18:35:24Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > First time I came across wines from that valley, I wasn’t sure if it was to be pronounced “will-MET” or “WILL-uh-MET” so I asked the guy at Binny’s (wine/beer/liquor superstore) and was informed it was “will-AH-mett,” which I wouldn’t have guessed, for whatever reason. Actually, Will-AM-met (not AH). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/59 "2022-11-09T18:48:25Z")
Well, dammit, Willamette. The Binny’s guy done taught me wrong! ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503/60 "2022-11-10T22:03:47Z")
Bear, and beer… [Bear Whiz Beer - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qclO9PuNNXQ) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-accents-ear-and-air/974503.md?page=4)