# american beheaded in Iraq, video **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662 "2004-05-11T18:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/201 "2004-05-12T17:46:54Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I for one have no desire to see it, but I’ve heard you can find it on [salon.com](http://salon.com) I don’t have a special desire to see it, I just find it slightly annoying for people to keep talking about it, even saying, “I oughta post the link,” and then not doing it. For that matter, I don’t think they should pixelate and blur the gentials of tortured prisoners… not because I want to see them, but I don’t need to be “protected” from the horrible truth, either. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/202 "2004-05-12T17:48:27Z")
Exposed genitals are the least of what’s wrong with those photos. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/203 "2004-05-12T17:51:11Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > So we’re back to the claim that nothing has happened because nobody has been charged. Even though the people who have actual access to the evidence–you know, that evidence that has been withheld from the public, and which we therefore cannot provide to you in response to your ever-increasing standards of proof–have told the public, both on and off the record, that rape and murder have been committed against prisoners held under U.S. custody. > > Schmuck. Yes, we’re back to the fact that you are willing to accept hearsay as proof. I hope you never serve on a jury, because you just don’t get it. You’re perfectly willing to throw out inconvienent things like the law and due process when it jibes with your political POV. Yes, Shayna, charges have been brought…excuse me **Charges have been brought** against 7 service members, all of them relating to the original group of photographs which we’ve seen. I don’t know about you, but I certainly would classify the abuse of prisoners (you know, like I said above:“Standing people naked on boxes with wires running to their body and telling them they were electrified, stripping prisoners and humiliating them in front of women, forcing them to wear dog collars while naked or to form naked pyramids”) as “physical violence, blatantly sadistic, cruel, inhuman or vividly horrifying”, maybe my tolerance for torture is just lower than yours. > [@Shayna](#): > > you will just have to take the word of Senator Graham when he says, after seeing the evidence and hearing the testimony, that they’re talking about rape and murder. Good point, because we all know that politicians never exagerate or use hyperbole in their public statements. :rolleyes: I am frankly amazed by all of you posting the same shit over and over again, from your POV I’ve painted myself into a corner. If the allegations are true, as you so fervently believe, then the proof will shortly come out. When it does, I’ll be happy to say, “Gosh, you were right”, and I’ll be doing so from a position of facts, not because my knee jerked or I felt like jumping on one bandwagon or another. It won’t bother me a’tall, because unlike some of you I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong. _shrug_ It happens every day, if I hadn’t accepted the fact that I’m not perfect long ago, I’d prolly be posting shrill diatribes to prop up my shattered ego all the time. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/204 "2004-05-12T17:52:33Z")
…but I understand where you’re coming from. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/205 "2004-05-12T18:00:27Z")
I looked away. It turns out I do need to be protected from it. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/206 "2004-05-12T18:08:52Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Yes, we’re back to the fact that you are willing to accept hearsay as proof. I hope you never serve on a jury, because you just don’t get it. You’re perfectly willing to throw out inconvienent things like the law and due process when it jibes with your political POV. This isn’t a trial, you moron. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/207 "2004-05-12T18:11:53Z")
OK – this is the question I have – for anyone who has viewed the video. Is this true ---- Can the people who committed this murder be heard laughing after they beheaded Berg? This question is NOT to stir emotion. I think the question has some merit since it tells us more about the mindset, here at least, and how we might think about ‘that thinking.’ The question is associated with this idea ---- how much of what is going on here appears motivated by ideology and how much pure thuggery? I’d think we’d have a MUCH easier time if the al Queda rank and file were mostly composed of thugs rather than ideologues. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/208 "2004-05-12T18:16:38Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Yes, we’re back to the fact that you are willing to accept hearsay as proof. Since when is **testimony under oath** spelled h e a r s a y? > [@](#): > > unlike some of you I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong. HA! HAHAHAHAHA!! > [@Weirddave](#): > > You on the other hand [think] nothing Israel ever does is wrong, while even the hint of a possibility of an American behaving improperly and you’re screaming “boil them in oil” from the battlements. LIAR. Provide proof I ever said anything even remotely of the sort or admit you were wrong and retract. > [@Weirddave](#): > > Oh, and Shayna… Hypocritical my ass. What’s hypocritical is that you’re all for attacking terrorists if they look cross eyed at Israel, but when they cut off the head of an American civilian, well, he had it coming. You are benieth contempt. LIAR. Provide proof I ever said anything even remotely of the sort or admit you were wrong and retract. What is beneath contempt is that you would dare try to pin on me a charge of thinking Mr. Berg had his horrific beheading coming to him. you DISGUST me. > [@Weirddave](#): > > You know, you’re the only person, even here, that I’ve seen who believes that Quday and Usay are poor marters for the cause of Iraq. LIAR. Provide proof I ever said anything even remotely of the sort or admit you were wrong and retract. You have the utter GALL to try to smear me by completely misrepresenting my positions on numerous subjects, IGNORE my repeated demands for proof or retractions and can still say with a straight face that you have no problem admitting when you’re wrong? As I said before, you are a disingenuous pigfuck. Your presence here at the Straight Dope sullies everything this message board is supposed to be about. Do NOT. I repeat, DO NOT post one more lie about me on this board ever again. Jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/209 "2004-05-12T18:19:28Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > You have been condeming the soldiers and contractors who are “having sex with prisoners, videotaping other people who are raping teenage boys, and beating people to death”. None of the allegations has been proven, nobody has been charged with these crimes. If they did it, condem all you want, however you’ll have to get in line behind me. Refresh my memory. Which court proved the allegations that the men in the video killed Nick Berg? Videos can be faked. I’ve seen very graphic movies where decapitation is simulated very realistically. What specific crimes were these men charged with and where can the verdict be found? > [@Weirddave](#): > > I would never refer to rape, sodomy and murder as a “prank”, I can’t imaging how sick in the head someone commiting these crimes would have to be to think of them as pranks to themself. If these allegations are proven, I could never believe that an individual could delude himself enough to consider them pranks. I was refering to the atrocities that we have evidece of at this time, not the allegations of worse which are pending. The evidence is there, it is referred to by investigative reports from the DoD and in the sworn testimony of officers including the Secretary of Defense. If you want to refuse to admit it has occurred until you see it on 60 minutes that is your business, but this is a standard of evidence unique to yourself and you should not attempt to impose it on others. The documentation of the investigations and sworn testimony is more evidence that these abuses did in fact happen than the general public ever sees for the majority of people who are executed in the US. Tell me why the authorities must prove to you that these abuses occurred when they don’t have to prove to you why they executed the guy down the road. Cause right now it looks like you’ve got your head in the sand. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/210 "2004-05-12T18:20:20Z")
**Tigers** , I would describe it as serious and ceremonial. Of course we can’t see their faces, but it doesn’t seem they are having “fun,” but I don’t doubt for one second that they have absolutely no sympathy for the victim and no sense of horror about it. These are not people I can understand on any level. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/211 "2004-05-12T18:20:37Z")
Gee, Shayna, you’re a top notch poster, and nobody thinks you’re a shrill harpy. Oops! ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/212 "2004-05-12T18:26:39Z")
**Weirddave** , you vile, disgusting scab on humanity, I don’t give a rat’s ass if you and your anonymous friends think I’m a shrill harpy. THAT has nothing to do with your continually putting forth LIES about me on this message board, which I see you are still not man enough to admit and apologize for. Disingenuous pigfuck. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/213 "2004-05-12T18:28:49Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > OK – this is the question I have – for anyone who has viewed the video. Is this true ---- Can the people who committed this murder be heard laughing after they beheaded Berg? This question is NOT to stir emotion. I think the question has some merit since it tells us more about the mindset, here at least, and how we might think about ‘that thinking.’ The question is associated with this idea ---- how much of what is going on here appears motivated by ideology and how much pure thuggery? I’d think we’d have a MUCH easier time if the al Queda rank and file were mostly composed of thugs rather than ideologues. The sound on the file isn’t great, but I didn’t hear laughter. There’s a brief speech in Arabic, then they kick over Berg, and as they saw through his neck you can hear him scream and the terrorists chant over and over, “Allahu akbar” (God is great.) But we’re not supposed to say anything bad about the Religion of Peace[sup]TM[/sup], so I won’t post my thoughts on ideology lest I be branded “insensitive.” ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/214 "2004-05-12T18:29:45Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > **Tigers** , I would describe it as serious and ceremonial. Of course we can’t see their faces, but it doesn’t seem they are having “fun,” but I don’t doubt for one second that they have absolutely no sympathy for the victim and no sense of horror about it. These are not people I can understand on any level. Thanks **skutir** ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/215 "2004-05-12T18:30:35Z")
Jesus, I’m actually missing **December** and **Scylla**. **Dave** puts up quite the weak fight. I assume you won’t answer my question, but that’s fine, you probably can’t think up a response or have me on ignore or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/216 "2004-05-12T18:32:04Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > The sound on the file isn’t great, but I didn’t hear laughter. There’s a brief speech in Arabic, then they kick over Berg, and as they saw through his neck you can hear him scream and the terrorists chant over and over, “Allahu akbar” (God is great.) > > But we’re not supposed to say anything bad about the Religion of Peace[sup]TM[/sup], so I won’t post my thoughts on ideology lest I be branded “insensitive.” Thanks for the second confirming opinion **gobear** – I had read on another board that laughing was heard. That’s why I asked here. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/217 "2004-05-12T18:32:47Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > But we’re not supposed to say anything bad about the Religion of Peace[sup]TM[/sup], so I won’t post my thoughts on ideology lest I be branded “insensitive.” Man, you really can’t let that shit go, can you? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/218 "2004-05-12T18:35:59Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > The evidence is there, it is referred to by investigative reports from the DoD and in the sworn testimony of officers including the Secretary of Defense. If you want to refuse to admit it has occurred until you see it on 60 minutes that is your business, but this is a standard of evidence unique to yourself and you should not attempt to impose it on others. The documentation of the investigations and sworn testimony is more evidence that these abuses did in fact happen than the general public ever sees for the majority of people who are executed in the US. Tell me why the authorities must prove to you that these abuses occurred when they don’t have to prove to you why they executed the guy down the road. Cause right now it looks like you’ve got your head in the sand. > > Enjoy, > Steven If, as you say, the evidence is there, then people will be charged with these crimes. That’s what I have consistantly held as my standard of proof. I didn’t demand that videos be played on the NBS Nightly News, although I have said that that would be acceptable as evidence as well. Why is this so hard? If there is evidence, brought forth in Congressional or other hearings, than I am sure that legal consiquences will be forthcoming. I’m willing to wait until that happens before I announce that accusations of rape, murder, etc… are justrified. When that does happen, I will condem the men and women responsible. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/219 "2004-05-12T18:42:35Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Well I sure as hell would like to, but that doesn’t mean that you aren’t “[one of the dumbest motherfuckers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4813900#post4813900)” on the planet, just because I didn’t list _every_ “one of” the dumbest motherfuckers, asshole. I don’t care how many have a special place in your heart, as long as I can be sure that I am one of them. Prove it. Give me a kiss. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/220 "2004-05-12T18:51:12Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Man, you really can’t let that shit go, can you? Given that I said I wasn’t going to post my thoughts, you seem intent on crucifying me for my unexpressed thoughts anyway, don’t you? Who can’t let that shit go? But to give you some fodder: I’m not picking on Islam especially; all religion is poison to the better impulses of humanity, IMO.Religion allows you to do any evil, viscious, hateful, bestial act that satisfies the niggling little itch in the greasy black pit of your mind, and feel good about doing it because you’re Doing God’s Work. Relgion is the death of conscience because you can only have a functioning conscience when you can think for yourself, and religion turns humans into fucking Bible-toting, Koran-spewing robots. If it were up to me, I’d burn every holy book, every church, every synagogue, every temple, every mosque and then tell humanity, “God is dead, think for yourselves.” Count me with George Carlin, “The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662.md?page=12)