# american beheaded in Iraq, video **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662 "2004-05-11T18:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/41 "2004-05-11T20:20:13Z")
> [@](#): > > And it’s certainly true that this killing could easily have happened before the revelation of the atrocities at Abu Ghraib. His body was found on Saturday, but his family say they hadn’t heard from him in a month. So that seems possible at least. [The AP story.](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-Iraq-American-Found.html) ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/42 "2004-05-11T20:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Not that I’m in favor of the war, but remember Daniel Pearl? What of it? Is this the “Remember all the people who’ve been decapitated” game? (Hey, Marie Antoinette! Your turn…) Sure I remember Daniel Pearl. He was the reporter who went looking for al Qaeda, and found them. He found them, because he was looking in one of the places al Qaeda … _(count to 10, deep breath, patience, boy, patience; just because there are still people who don’t get it … )_ … one of the places, where al Qaeda ACTUALLY WAS AT THE TIME AND THAT WAS NOT IN IRAQ! ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/43 "2004-05-11T21:01:30Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] And, as if on cue, **gobear** appears to add more fertilizer to an already abundent forest of hatred and violence based on a persons race. While QUOTE] Silly **Hamlet**. it’s not about race, but politics. Do you really think that the US has not earned some enmity in the Arab street? Do you think that Arabs will not greet this act as deserved retribution for our invasion of Iraq and the atrocities at Abu Ghraib? Do you know nothing of human nature? Hate and vengeance are as natural as breathing to humans. Just as I accept that \*\*Hamlet[/b hates my guts for reasons that make sense to him, we as Americans have to accept that we are hated by most of the world. I’m not saying it’s good or bad, just that it’s natural. And we’ll retaliate for this murder, and the insurgents will strike back, and this whole sorry cycle will continue. > [@](#): > > I do not doubt the veracity of your statement, it is vitally important to remember that, just as there are Arabs who support terrorism, there are those who don’t. Cite? > [@](#): > > And just as there are Americans who commit atrocities against Arabs, there are those who don’t. Well, duh, of course, most Arabs don’t commit terrorism. Doesn’t mean they are supporting the US in Iraq. > [@](#): > > But why bother making that point when generalizations and blind hatred is so much easier. I don’t hate the Arabs and I don’t blame them for hating us. I just expect the worst from people in situations like this. That goes for both Americans and Arabs. For example, I can always count on you to post with scorn and disgust at anything I say. The content of my posts doesn’t matter because you despise me and thus will always disparage anything I say, even if I were to post positively and lovingly and echo your arguments at every point. That’s fine, and I accept it. Even if I posted opinions you agreed with from here on in, it would not lessen your hate for me one iota, and that’s OK. Just as I cannot change your mind about me, the US cannot change the mind of the Arab world about it. We’re in the mud too deep. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/44 "2004-05-11T21:12:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > His body was found on Saturday, but his family say they hadn’t heard from him in a month. So that seems possible [that this killing could easily have happened before the revelation of the atrocities at Abu Ghraib], at least. No, it is not possible at all. He was killed sometime after April 9th, which is plenty long after the _Iraqis_ became aware of the prison abuse (which has been reported by the Red Cross since last Summer), and still long after even this administration learned of the abuse, and even longer than we, the people of the United States were made aware of the abuse. [CNN published articles about these events back in **January**](http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/20/sprj.nirq.abuse/index.html). As **wring** has already stated above, we’re only now _paying attention_ to the revelation because there are _pictures_ to go along with the text. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/45 "2004-05-11T21:13:47Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > No shit dave that’s why I said they were already on edge. Anything on the planet could have set them off, but abusing and raping prisoners sure didn’t help. > > And tell me, do you think this sickening and atrocious incident is going to encourage or discourage better prisoner/guard relations? > > Please be careful to note that I am not blaming us for the incident, nor absolving anyone of responsibility or blame, simply saying that violence begets violence, and if you think this is going to be the worst of it, baby you’re crazy. No, I do think that there will likely be more violence, but I believe we’ve seen the end of it on our side (prison abuse). What we’ve seen so far can be dismissed as “pranks” (Not that they are pranks, or are in any way acceptable, they are uncatagoricly not, but I can see the soldiers involved thinking of them that way), but the military IS doing an excellent job of prosecuting those responsible so far, I doubt many soldiers will be inclined to try that kind of shit again. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/46 "2004-05-11T21:24:44Z")
Just a drive-by… > [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > We are either people of principle or we are not. If we are not people of principle then what the Hell are we doing over there at all? BAM! THis here is the issue. We cruised in on our high horses and now people are being caught doing things that Saddam Hussein’s kids would have been accused of doing 3 years ago. Sam ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/47 "2004-05-11T21:25:51Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > but I believe we’ve seen the end of it on our side (prison abuse). Mind if I bookmark this quote? Your naivete is both frightening and ‘special’ ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/48 "2004-05-11T21:30:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I liked things better when SH was in power. Just waitin’ 'til you can plug your ears and sing “La la la” in the corner again, eh? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/49 "2004-05-11T21:32:40Z")
> [@](#): > > We cruised in on our high horses and now people are being caught doing things that Saddam Hussein’s kids would have been accused of doing 3 years ago. What a fucking drama queen. Care to show just how putting a hood on someone’s head is equivalent to, oh, raping and murdering a bride on her wedding day, f’r example? Just stick with the “Bush is Hitler!”, Neo-libs. Don’t try to disguise your Godwins by using some other monster. ---
**Author:** ![Otters\_We\_Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3da27b/32.png) [@Otters\_We\_Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otters_We_Love)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/50 "2004-05-11T21:35:41Z")
What would happen if we pulled out? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/51 "2004-05-11T21:42:19Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Care to show just how putting a hood on someone’s head is equivalent to, oh, raping and murdering a bride on her wedding day, f’r example? You’re not seriously putting forth the absurd notion that all we did to those prisoners was put hoods over their heads, are you?! How the hell do you know if any of the people who we raped, sodomized, sexually abused, emotionally tortured and yes, murdered, were set to have gotten married the day after they were captured, or a week after, or whenthefuckever? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/52 "2004-05-11T21:54:48Z")
> [@Otters We Love](#): > > What would happen if we pulled out? Well, the Islamic fundamentalists would say that America all along had intended to do nothing but destroy Iraq and leave it in chaos. The wet-noodle liberals would agree with them. The war-hawk conservatives would say the ungrateful Iraqis deserved to be abandoned. The politicians in power would find someone else’s lives to ruin for their personal gain. And the beat would go on as it has for thousands of years. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/53 "2004-05-11T21:56:07Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You’re not seriously putting forth the absurd notion that all we did to those prisoners was put hoods over their heads, are you?! How the hell do you know if any of the people who we raped, sodomized, sexually abused, emotionally tortured and yes, murdered, were set to have gotten married the day after they were captured, or a week after, or whenthefuckever? You have proof that our prison guards “raped, sodomized, sexually abused, emotionally tortured and yes, murdered” anyone? If so, I’d like to see it, or I’ll expect a retraction. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/54 "2004-05-11T21:59:04Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > You have proof that our prison guards “raped, sodomized, sexually abused, emotionally tortured and yes, murdered” anyone? If so, I’d like to see it, or I’ll expect a retraction. I’ll give you “emotionally tortured”, but that’s it. Show me proof of the rest. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/55 "2004-05-11T22:08:43Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I’ll give you “emotionally tortured”, but that’s it. Show me proof of the rest. **Otto, Weirdave** apparently you’ve not been paying attention [Taguba](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/11/politics.abuse.main/index.html)’s report says > [@](#): > > In his report, Taguba concluded that U.S. military police in Iraq inflicted “sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuse” on prisoners in their custody numerous times. that it was systemic. please note, also that there’s quite a few photos and video clips that haven’t been released yet. that the investigations include more than one homicide investigation. There’s picture of a Iraqi prisoner, bound and naked with dogs barking at him, a picture a few minutes later show the same guy lying on the ground naked and bleeding. Rumsy himself suggested that Americans prepare for much worse. > [@](#): > > There are other photos – many other photos – that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman," Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. “And I am advised there also are videos of these actions.” from [here](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/07/politics.abuse.main/index.html) so, maybe it’s you who should think about retracting your words. (prediction: nope, he wont’) ---
**Author:** ![electrozion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/85f322/32.png) [@electrozion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/electrozion)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/56 "2004-05-11T22:18:46Z")
This is horrible! I’m glad I didn’t see the video - it was hard enough to just read the description of this hideos crime. I was against this war (liked the side effect of Saddam being removed, though), but pulling out now does not seem to be a smart move to me. One of the reasons of me opposing this war were my doubts that it could be won. “Won” in the sense of establishing a peaceful “western-friendly” democracy in Iraq. What to do? I don’t know. This is all so sad. > [@Weirddave](#): > > You have proof that our prison guards “raped, sodomized, sexually abused, emotionally tortured and yes, murdered” anyone? If so, I’d like to see it, or I’ll expect a retraction. So this is not sexual abuse? [“The Guardian”](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1206725,00.html/) > [@](#): > > US military investigators discovered the photographs, which include images of a hooded prisoner with wires fixed to his body, and nude inmates piled in a human pyramid. > The pictures, which were obtained by an American TV network, also show a dog attacking a prisoner and other inmates being forced to simulate sex with each other. It is thought the abuses took place in November and December last year. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/57 "2004-05-11T22:20:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Weirddave** …but I believe we’ve seen the end of it on our side (prison abuse). I wish this could be true, but honestly think that it is highly unlikely. The balance of power thing between guard and prisoner is always subject to abuse at the best of times, but the situation in Iraq is not the best of times. Unless you can say that the US government is going to break out the additional personel, training, and supervision that could possibly clean this up, the system is set up to fail again. At the moment there is no way politicaly that this administration can do that because it would involve admitting errors. I see some shuffling of people but so far I don’t see much addressing the training and personel additions that I believe are needed. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Weirddave** You have proof that our prison guards “raped, sodomized, sexually abused, emotionally tortured and yes, murdered” anyone? If so, I’d like to see it, or I’ll expect a retraction. I am afraid this may be coming. Somehow when the Master of Obfuscation, Rumsfeld starts saying there is worse to come, I have to wonder how awful it must be. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/58 "2004-05-11T22:24:41Z")
And herein lies the reason that the whistleblower who shared these images with the press, in all his fucking naivete to think that exposing human rights violations would make the world a better place for all, ought to be taken out and whacked a few times with a 2 x 4. Incredulous that I feel this way? I don’t care. Any idiot with half a brain knew that the inevitable result of sharing the pictures of our soldiers humiliating those poor Iraqi bastards with the world would: a) further smear our image in the international community at a time when we sure the hell didn’t need any more egg on our face; b) serve as a neat recruitment poster for terrorists to pull another act of terrorism or 10; and c) further enflame the Iraqis against OUR people who are just following orders. IMO, this “problem” should have been handled internally. The whistleblower should have given his superiors x number of days to stop these abuses OR he’d go public with the information. What he did, and the way he did it, was damn near traitorous. And his fellow soldiers and contractored civilians are going to pay a very, very dear price for his naivete. Oh, I hope he sleeps good tonight. Bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/59 "2004-05-11T22:24:49Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > You have proof that our prison guards “raped, sodomized, sexually abused, emotionally tortured and yes, murdered” anyone? If so, I’d like to see it, or I’ll expect a retraction. What the fuck planet have you been living on? You have got to be one of the dumbest motherfuckers I’ve ever had the displeasure of witnessing (aside from the jackass who lied us into this goddamned mess in the first place). Your either wanton disregard for the evidence shown so far, or your unimaginable distortion of it thoroughly disgust me. There is absolutely no reason on this earth I can think of to retract the truth, so you can just keep dreamin’ on. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/60 "2004-05-11T22:38:43Z")
I posted above: > [@](#): > > A military report about that abuse describes threats against detainees, \*\*sodomizing of some prisoners \*\*and forcing them into sexually humiliating poses. Charges have been brought against six service members, and investigations into activity at that prison continue. > > Military investigators have looked into - or are continuing to investigate - 35 cases of alleged abuse or death of prisoners in detention facilities in the Central Command theater, according to the secretary of the Army, Les Brownlee. **Two of those cases were deemed homicides,** he said. (emphasis mine) there’s the sexual abuse/rape claimed above, and investigation continuing into homicide (ie the determination has been made that it was homicide vs natural causes, investigation goes into if it was justified, manslaughter, murder). **PunditLisa** - you’re blaming the guy who was honorable? you are fucking sick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662.md?page=4)