# american beheaded in Iraq, video **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 11, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662 "2004-05-11T18:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/61 "2004-05-11T22:41:55Z")
Out of curiosity, what does it matter if this beheading was in response to the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners? Imagine it had only been motivated by one of the thousands of civilians killed by the U.S. since the war began. Does it really change anything? All it proves is that this war has made some Iraqis hate us enough to torture any Americans they can get their hands on. Whether this specific incident was motivated by the torture of Iraqi prisoners or the accidental killing of Iraqi civilians is pretty irrelevant. This is a guerilla war. Vietnam already taught us that guerilla war is brutal and awful and savage. It should have taught us to avoid another one until we had absolutely exhausted every other possibility. These incidents don’t reveal that Iraqis are more savage or cruel or ungrateful than other people, as some will try to claim to rationalize the mess we’ve made. If the U.S. was starved, bombed and invaded like this, some of us would fight back in exactly the same way. Rather, we see the atrocities that inevitably happen in guerilla wars like this. It’s a disgusting and savage way to fight, but it’s also a fact of life. ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/62 "2004-05-11T22:54:03Z")
I’m surprised that no one’s mentioned that this guy wasn’t a soldier, wasn’t a contractor or civil servant - he was an American telecom business owner who, robber baron style, went over there to exploit and cash in on the rebuilding efforts. Looks like his check got cashed first, though. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/63 "2004-05-11T22:56:16Z")
So **Weirddave** demands authority for the charges of rape, sodomy, and murder? None so blind as he who gets his news from Fox, I guess. So here’s some CNN. > [@](#): > > **Rumsfeld: Unreleased images ‘cruel and inhuman’ > Defense secretary outlines panel to probe prisoner abuse** > > Saturday, May 8, 2004 Posted: 8:47 AM EDT (1247 GMT) > > . . . > > A military report about that abuse describes detainees being threatened, **sodomized** with a chemical light and forced into sexually humiliating poses. > > . . . > > Military investigators have looked into – or are continuing to investigate – 35 cases of alleged abuse or deaths of prisoners in detention facilities in the Central Command theater, according to Army Secretary Les Brownlee. Two of those cases were deemed **homicides** , he said. > > “The American public needs to understand we’re talking about **rape** and **murder** here. We’re not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience,” Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina told reporters after Rumsfeld testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. > > “We’re talking about **rape** and **murder** – and some very serious charges.” > > . . . > > Taguba also found evidence of a “male MP guard having sex with a female detainee.” Gee, maybe it was consensual, huh **Weirddave**? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/64 "2004-05-11T22:57:29Z")
Sorry, forgot to include [the link](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/07/iraq.abuse.main/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/65 "2004-05-11T22:59:35Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > IMO, this “problem” should have been handled internally. The whistleblower should have given his superiors x number of days to stop these abuses OR he’d go public with the information. Well, call me skeptical, I don’t think the problem would “have been handled internally” very well if these photos weren’t released publicly. And I’m sure the superiors the military surperiors would really take a blackmail scheme like “take care of this, or I will expose you” very well, either. > [@](#): > > What he did, and the way he did it, was damn near traitorous. WTF kind of statement is this? > [@](#): > > Oh, I hope he sleeps good tonight. I hope so too, because he deserves it. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/66 "2004-05-11T23:00:52Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > What a fucking drama queen. Care to show just how putting a hood on someone’s head is equivalent to, oh, raping and murdering a bride on her wedding day, f’r example? > > Just stick with the “Bush is Hitler!”, Neo-libs. Don’t try to disguise your Godwins by using some other monster. Funny, Spoofe. We’re not talking about a hood. We’re talking about a hood and elecrical torture, naked homo-erotic photography and siccing dogs on people. Naked People. And taking pictures of that abuse of power. Rape. Other assorted things that will come to light in the future. So fuck you very much. I never said shit about Bush or even Rummy. In fact, I think it is fucking stupid to pin this on either of them. A few bored employees and representatives of the united states have let us down. They are degenerates who needed to get off. That doesn’t make me a “neo-lib drama queen” you fucking tool. That makes me an objective citizen who realizes that just a few years ago Hussein’s kids were often cited as doing horriffic things such as torture and other sexual-type assaults on the citizenry. Fuck you again. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/67 "2004-05-11T23:04:48Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > Sorry, forgot to include [the link](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/07/iraq.abuse.main/index.html). But you forgot to include the part that supports the assinine notion that all we did was put hoods over their heads! > [@](#): > > Rumsfeld told Congress the unrevealed photos and videos contain acts “that can only be described as **blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman**.” And we think we’re any better than they are? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/68 "2004-05-11T23:07:40Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > Cite? You need a cite for the proposition that not all Arabs support terrorism? Dear God, you’re worse off than I ever dreamed possible. > [@gobear](#): > > For example, I can always count on you to post with scorn and disgust at anything I say. The content of my posts doesn’t matter because you despise me and thus will always disparage anything I say, even if I were to post positively and lovingly and echo your arguments at every point. That’s fine, and I accept it. > > Even if I posted opinions you agreed with from here on in, it would not lessen your hate for me one iota, and that’s OK. Just as I cannot change your mind about me, the US cannot change the mind of the Arab world about it. We’re in the mud too deep. I don’t hate you. I pity you. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/69 "2004-05-11T23:08:16Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Just waitin’ 'til you can plug your ears and sing “La la la” in the corner again, eh? I stand by my comment. I would have preferred leaving him in power compared to the current state of affairs. a) We’re running up our debt like no tomorrow b) We’ve _destroyed_ our global credibilty, blown it to shit. c) There is no end in sight to this conflict, in fact it’s only escalating d) Shitloads of people are dying e) This issue is polarizing the country in a very, _very_, bad way Anything else I’ve missed? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/70 "2004-05-11T23:11:25Z")
By the way, I’m well aware that shitloads of people would be dying under SH, so spare me that tired argument. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/71 "2004-05-11T23:14:19Z")
> [@](#): > > All it proves is that this war has made some Iraqis hate us enough to torture any Americans they can get their hands on. Actually, the video was released on a web site affiliated with al-Queda, and apparently a title on the video suggests that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, a Jordanian often descibed as second-in-command of the organization, took part in the killing. Also, for those speculating on when the beheading took place, apparently it was done last Saturday and specifically in response to news of US abuses at Abu Ghraib prison. Link: [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040511/ap\_on\_re\_mi\_ea/iraq](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=1&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq) ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/72 "2004-05-11T23:20:26Z")
By the way, can anyone explain to me why we haven’t shoved a cruise missile straight through the CD-ROM drive of the server that hosts that website? Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/73 "2004-05-11T23:27:39Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You have got to be one of the dumbest motherfuckers I’ve ever had the displeasure of witnessing (aside from the jackass who lied us into this goddamned mess in the first place). Hey, what about me? Forgotten already? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/74 "2004-05-11T23:34:56Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > Perhaps there are some times when intelligent and rational people should just universally decry the act, unconditionally condemn the people committing the act, and join in remorse for another senseless loss of human life - without making their own stupid little political postures about “cause and effect” and “we deserved it” and “we pushed them into it” and “Bush is history’s greatest monster[sup]TM[/sup]”. > > I guess that requires people to act intelligent and rational. We would all do well to remember the dangers of absolutes. This act did not occur in a vacuum. There is nothing unintelligent, or irrational, about pointing that out. It is perfectly possible to provide a fair context without resorting to the posturing you are referring to. I would argue that it is desirable and beneficial to have these points of reference along with the event in question. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/75 "2004-05-11T23:39:22Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > By the way, can anyone explain to me why we haven’t shoved a cruise missile straight through the CD-ROM drive of the server that hosts that website? Seriously. Sometimes we are blinded by the obvious? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/76 "2004-05-11T23:41:25Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > By the way, can anyone explain to me why we haven’t shoved a cruise missile straight through the CD-ROM drive of the server that hosts that website? Seriously. Good chance the server, like most spam servers today, is in China. Don’t think we want to go there. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/77 "2004-05-11T23:42:52Z")
The horrific irony in all of this is that he was arrested at an Iraqi checkpoint for not having papers in order in March; presumably the same “crime” of so many of the individuals abused in Abu Gharib prison. Because of this coalition supported detention, he missed his March 30th flight from the country back home. His family is squarely blaming the coalition. From the BBC: > [@](#): > > The 26-year-old Mr Berg, who owned a communications equipment company, was involved in rebuilding antennas in Iraq before he disappeared on 9 April. > > But he went missing prior to that, and was later found to have been arrested at an Iraqi checkpoint in Mosul and held in an Iraqi jail with Iraqi prisoners for 13 days, his father told American TV on Tuesday morning, before the video was released. > > Michael Berg said the US authorities were indirectly responsible for his death, by failing to secure his release and thereby causing him to miss his flight home on 30 March. > > “He would have missed the escalation if they had let him go,” he said. God damn, humanity makes me sick. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/78 "2004-05-11T23:43:41Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Hey, what about me? Forgotten already? Well I sure as hell would like to, but that doesn’t mean that you aren’t “[one of the dumbest motherfuckers](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4813900#post4813900)” on the planet, just because I didn’t list _every_ “one of” the dumbest motherfuckers, asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Aguecheek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Aguecheek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aguecheek)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/79 "2004-05-11T23:49:10Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > IMO, this “problem” should have been handled internally. The whistleblower should have given his superiors x number of days to stop these abuses OR he’d go public with the information. What he did, and the way he did it, was damn near traitorous. And his fellow soldiers and contractored civilians are going to pay a very, very dear price for his naivete. Oh, I hope he sleeps good tonight. Bastard. You’re frigging kidding, right? On the off chance you’re serious with that incredibly insensitive and remarkably small minded comment, I’ll reply. > [@](#): > > “Wisdom testified that he told his superiors what had happened, and assumed that “the issue was taken care of.” > [@](#): > > “The investigation started after SPC Darby . . . got a CD from CPL Graner. . . . He came across pictures of naked detainees.” Bobeck said that Darby had “initially put an anonymous letter under our door, then he later came forward and gave a sworn statement. He felt very bad about it and thought it was very wrong.” From [here.](http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact) Two people kept it internal and nothing happened. Nothing fucking happened until CBS got ahold of the pictures. The whistleblower’s fellow “soldiers” deserve every frigging thing that’s going to happen to them, same as everyone else whose career is on the line because of this. “Traitorous?” That’s fucking disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662/80 "2004-05-11T23:54:20Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Care to show just how putting a hood on someone’s head is equivalent to, oh, raping and murdering a bride on her wedding day, f’r example? Is _this_ the best the Bush apologists can offer? “We’re still not as bad as Saddam!” :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-beheaded-in-iraq-video/244662.md?page=5)