# American Capitalism at its finest (Hershey walkout) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727 "2011-08-31T05:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/1 "2011-08-31T05:23:58Z")
Watch [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-h8EBP0JSs). Or read [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/us/25student.html). WTF America? From the second link above: > [@](#): > > The Department of Labor and the State Department opened investigations this week of job conditions at a Pennsylvania packing plant for Hershey’s chocolates where several hundred international exchange students walked off their jobs last week, protesting low pay and strenuous work. > > The Hershey Company, after seeking to stay out of the dispute for several days, came forward on Tuesday and responded to the complaints by offering them a day of educational events at the chocolate company’s headquarters in Hershey. > > Kirk Saville, a Hershey spokesman, said the company had also asked the contractor that operates the vast plant in nearby Palmyra, Pa., to give the foreign students a fully paid week off, so that they could travel to see some sights in the United States. Wow Hershey! A WHOLE week off! A day of education? Really?? This is Third World shit. Near slave labor. Fuck you Hershey. You should be ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/2 "2011-08-31T06:04:45Z")
Recently discussed in [MPSIMS](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=621008). ETA: Not that i want to discourage your Pitting; just thought you might be interested. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/3 "2011-08-31T06:28:50Z")
And their chocolate sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/4 "2011-08-31T06:53:00Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Recently discussed in [MPSIMS](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=621008). > > ETA: > > Not that i want to discourage your Pitting; just thought you might be interested. I was thinking of posting this in MPSIMS then decided to post here. I did a quick and dirty search in this forum and thought is was fresh(ish). If Mods want to close this feel free. Yeah I want to rant but the MPSIMS thread is apparently more developed. Up to you…I am cool with it either way. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/5 "2011-08-31T10:34:51Z")
I don’t want to come off as Marxist, but capitalism depends on exploitation to work. Unless you have a product or service for which there is a lot of demand and not much competition, the only way to make a profit is to cheap out on suppliers and/or workers. That’s where the profit margin lies, bottom line. You either exploit or be exploited. Granted, some forms of exploitedness can be lucrative, but it’s nothing compared to what the exploiters are getting off of them. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/6 "2011-08-31T10:47:48Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > And their chocolate sucks. chocolate? just because it is brown does not mean it is chocolate… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/7 "2011-08-31T10:55:22Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > I don’t want to come off as Marxist, but capitalism depends on exploitation to work. Unless you have a product or service for which there is a lot of demand and not much competition, the only way to make a profit is to cheap out on suppliers and/or workers. That’s where the profit margin lies, bottom line. You either exploit or be exploited. Granted, some forms of exploitedness can be lucrative, but it’s nothing compared to what the exploiters are getting off of them. I forgot the other path to profit, which is to dupe someone into paying more than the product or service is worth, which is really just another form of exploitation, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/8 "2011-08-31T11:10:24Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > I don’t want to come off as Marxist, but capitalism depends on exploitation to work. Fail. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/9 "2011-08-31T12:10:50Z")
Another classic road to profit is governmental subsidies or controls. A lot of times these are zero sum games (for instance, railroad right of way giveaways or current food subsidies,) but sometimes these both create a barrier to entry which creates good profits _and_ helps consumers, for instance, doctors’ licensing. While I think that we need to help create more doctors because even if we have truly universal health care there would still be people going without due to lack of doctors, I don’t think the way to go about that it to let just _anyone_ call themselves a medical doctor without any licensing requirements. Some say this is getting the government to clamp down on capitalism in order to gain great income for the current doctors, others say that this is to protect the consumers, I think it’s a little bit of both. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/10 "2011-08-31T13:45:45Z")
I was waiting to see the Hershey CEO quoted as saying, “It’s my way or the highway!” ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/11 "2011-08-31T13:50:25Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Fail. Elucidate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/12 "2011-08-31T14:14:34Z")
Uh… why should Hershey’s be ashamed for giving them a week off? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/13 "2011-08-31T14:18:13Z")
> [@An\_Arky](#): > > Elucidate. Capitalism doesn’t require exploitation. All it requires is the same basics of trade that we all learn in grade school social studies. I can make 20lbs of chocolate an hour. I’m good at it, and I have a good process. By the same token, I can make one shirt an hour. You, like the average person in Analogyland, can only make 5lbs of chocolate an hour, for whatever reason, but damn with the needles boy, you can make four shirts an hour. So at some point, we trade–I give you 10lbs of chocolate, and you give me two shirts. And wouldn’t you know it, we BOTH think we’ve traded a half-hour of work and got products worth two hours of work in exchange. Profit! Add in a medium of exchange (read: money) and a few more people, and bam–capitalism. The problem inherent in capitalism is when I get a bunch of guys and teach them all my 20lbs-per-hour chocolate technique if they work for me. If I let them take home 19lbs of chocolate every hour they work, and keep one for myself as payment for inventing the method and knowing who to buy the supplies from, I get pretty well off and they are almost as well off as they would be if I were out of the picture–and nearly 4 times better off than they would have been without me. If I, on the other hand, take 14lbs of their hourly production each, then I get mega-rich and they’re exploited (only taking home a little more than they would on their own, even though they’re producing far more). ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/14 "2011-08-31T14:21:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Uh… why should Hershey’s be ashamed for giving them a week off? As nearly as I can tell, because it’s alleged that Hershey’s is violating the terms of the work-study program that got these exchange students over here in the first place, and relying on the fact that they’re foreign students to prevent them from complaining about systematic labor violations–and then trying to smooth all that over with “a week of vacation”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/15 "2011-08-31T14:33:58Z")
But Hershey doesn’t run the plant; the students are employed by a subcontractor. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/16 "2011-08-31T14:42:41Z")
Right. It’s out of their chocolate-stained hands. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/17 "2011-08-31T14:47:16Z")
The article does not give enough details to determine if the wages were “slave” level or not. It only says that the students didn’t think they earned enough, they didn’t like lifting 50 lb boxes, and they didn’t like working the graveyard shift. Pardon me if I wait until the results of the investigation are available before buying into the OP’s claims, which are, at this point, unsubstantiated. However, I do agree that Hershey’s so-called chocolate sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/18 "2011-08-31T15:00:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The article does not give enough details to determine if the wages were “slave” level or not. It only says that the students didn’t think they earned enough, they didn’t like lifting 50 lb boxes, and they didn’t like working the graveyard shift. Pardon me if I wait until the results of the investigation are available before buying into the OP’s claims, which are, at this point, unsubstantiated. It is less the actual wage (which looks like minimum wage to me) than forcing the students to pay the company to work there which makes their net take home laughable (bolding below it mine). > [@](#): > > In 1961, Congress created a program for international students and professionals to travel here, with the goal of building good will for the United States in the fight against Communism. The program, which became the J-1 visa, thrives today — but not as Congress intended. > > Instead, it has become the country’s largest guest worker program. Its “summer work travel” component recruits well over 100,000 international students a year to do menial jobs at dairy farms, resorts and factories — **a privilege for which the Hershey’s students shelled out between $3,000 and $6,000**. They received $8 an hour, but **after fees and deductions, including overpriced rent for crowded housing, they netted between $1 and $3.50 an hour**. Hershey’s once had its own unionized workers packing its candy bars, starting at $18 to $30 an hour. Now the company outsources distribution to a non-union company that hires most of its workers from the J-1 program. > > SOURCE: [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/opinion/americas-sweatshop-diplomacy.html?\_r=1](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/25/opinion/americas-sweatshop-diplomacy.html?_r=1) ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/19 "2011-08-31T15:08:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Wow Hershey! A WHOLE week off! A day of education? Really?? According to the article linked in the other thread, the workers were there for all of two months, so yeah, a week and a day off seems pretty generous, actually. There’s probably something wrong with the program in the first place if the jobs students get can’t even pay their expenses. But I don’t see where Hershey or Exel has treated them badly by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/20 "2011-08-31T15:12:45Z")
You mean besides stealing their money? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727.md?page=2)