# American Capitalism at its finest (Hershey walkout) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727 "2011-08-31T05:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/81 "2011-09-01T17:14:33Z")
Also, the company is using this cheap labor in lieu of hiring Americans. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/82 "2011-09-01T17:54:18Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Also, the company is using this cheap labor in lieu of hiring Americans. Or, in lieu of relocating the whole operation to China. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/83 "2011-09-01T19:02:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Or, in lieu of relocating the whole operation to China. That would require more change than a packing subcontractor. I don’t recall from the article anything about the manufacture of chocolates being handled by students from this program. Since the vast quantities of sugar, milk, cocoa, and other ingredients probably can’t be found in China as easily or cheaply as the US, I rather doubt the operation can profitably move to China, anyway. And I don’t see Hershey shipping the product off to China just to be packed and sent back here. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/84 "2011-09-01T19:20:27Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > They PAID $3000 or more for this. > > At $8/hour they’d net $3840 for the summer (assuming 12 weeks @ 40 hours/week). > > Would you pay $3000 to travel to another country to make a profit of $840 for three months of work? $10/day? After you pay for room and board what are you left with? > > It is suggested some pay as much as $6000 to get here. > > This is not some whiny little silver spoon stuck in their ass suburban kid bitching about working at McDonalds. > > I am willing to bet these young people could have found work packing boxes where they came from without the trouble of applying for visas and digging up money and traveling around the world to put candy into boxes. > > And if you notice these are not “first world kids” for the most part but rather talented kids from non-first world countries. Why do you think it’s relevant whether you or anyone else would take the deal these kids decided to take (assuming everything was explained to them beforehand)? ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/85 "2011-09-01T19:24:40Z")
One aspect is missing from this discussion. Here’s what I found at the bottom of the web page: > [@](#): > > “CETUSA is a non-profit organization dedicated to helping Americans and those from other cultures to gain a better understanding of one another. > …reaching out to encourage a lifelong journey of global peace and understanding” I’ve made it a point of hanging out with foreign students and workers whenever I get the chance for most of my life. The viewpoints are refreshing and it’s great fun fun to learn about there culture. Inviting them over for dinner is never disappointing, (you want entertainment? One thing I’ll never forget was watching a bunch of Hindu’s debate and argue over how best to decorate a Xmas tree.). One thing I keep discovering is just how little foreign visitor’s know about Americans other than via the media which (IMO) hugely distorts what America is like. When you invite them into your home, it really means a lot to them. They get chance to see that we tend not to be larger than life, we have problems, and that we’re all trying to live our lives normally, etc. The reason CETUSA and Hershey are being pilloried here is I don’t see this cultural exchange taking place. It’s purely exploitative. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if all the students work, have no chance to interact with Americans locally, why the charade? At some point, they will go back after this experience to their respective countries and describe us as being a bunch of greedy dick heads. Personally, I’m ashamed to be an American when I here about this shit. But one aspect people don’t understand is that it can have long term consequences you can’t even dream of. You never know if that the person later in life will achieve some political influence later that can be a benefit us at home. We’re rather loathed around the world, and with the rise of the PRC, we need all the friends we can get. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/86 "2011-09-01T19:37:53Z")
What’s your basis for saying they “only work” and “have no chance to interact with Americans”? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/87 "2011-09-01T19:54:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Why do you think it’s relevant whether you or anyone else would take the deal these kids decided to take (assuming everything was explained to them beforehand)? I’m not greatly in the habit of agreeing with you, but, well, I do. CETUSA’s public response can be read [here](https://www.cetusa.org/public/assets/download/38/state-department-response-plus-shs-job-offer.pdf) addressing the complaint point by point. I do believe that these students have crappy summer jobs. I just believe that ‘crappy summer job’ is exactly what they signed up for. Crappy summer jobs, I would note, that are similar to what their American peers do over the summer. At no time were they promised professional positions or skilled labor. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/88 "2011-09-01T19:55:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I certainly believe they might not know what goes on in buildings which _aren’t_ its factories. I’ve dealt with the people who manage our subcontractors. They certainly do know what is going on. You think Hershey’s is stupid enough to have product going out and not check that the product is being damaged during packing, say? All these operations involve contracts about quality and frequent inspections. Now, I suspect the contract says that the subcontractor must obey all applicable US laws, but does not say that they shouldn’t exploit foreign students. However someone from Hershey almost certainly knew something was going on. Perhaps they didn’t care. Perhaps they figured that paying decent wages would increase costs. But they would have known if they cared to know. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/89 "2011-09-01T22:22:23Z")
This thread is just another of the many many examples of SDMB liberal douchetards who think they know how to run everyone’s life better than they temselves do. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/90 "2011-09-01T22:31:23Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > I’m not greatly in the habit of agreeing with you, but, well, I do. > > CETUSA’s public response can be read [here](https://www.cetusa.org/public/assets/download/38/state-department-response-plus-shs-job-offer.pdf) addressing the complaint point by point. > > I do believe that these students have crappy summer jobs. I just believe that ‘crappy summer job’ is exactly what they signed up for. Crappy summer jobs, I would note, that are similar to what their American peers do over the summer. At no time were they promised professional positions or skilled labor. I certainly had my share of “crappy summer jobs” and was thrilled when I finally had enough skills to get a lab job where I could actually be creative and work in a nice environment for a change. Still made minimum wage (or barely above), but I learned a hell of a lot about electronics and had a lot of fun doing it. So yeah, "crappy summer jobs’ is all part of growing up. It does a person good to see why they don’t want to be stuck doing that for the rest of their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/91 "2011-09-01T22:50:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > This thread is just another of the many many examples of SDMB liberal douchetards who think they know how to run everyone’s life better than they temselves do. I used to get really annoyed when I see your posts, but now I’m just grateful they’re way more concise than **Starving** ’s, even if the content is the same. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/92 "2011-09-01T23:06:29Z")
So how am I wrong Bosstone? Or are you just OK with the fact that you think you know better than everyone else what they should be doing? ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/93 "2011-09-01T23:07:37Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What’s your basis for saying they “only work” and “have no chance to interact with Americans”? Per the letter **Hello Again** presented, I stand corrected. There’s a lot more to the story then I previously assumed and I apologize. Apparently, there was a third party involved who had their own agenda. Apparently CETUSA does engage in cultural exchange; just not as intimately as I expected. Which is disappointing. When visiting Scandinavia, I hooked up with an organization that allowed me to meet families for lunch/dinner. I want to make it clear that I was not arguing about the crappy summer job part. I put myself through college working at a sewage treatment plant, lemon and avocado orchards, as a janitor, etc. You gotta pay your dues… BTW, **RR** , how many foreign guests have you entertained? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/94 "2011-09-01T23:19:40Z")
There was the same complaint about the [ski industry here in Colorado](http://www.ski-blog.com/2006/09/more_on_wages_for_employees_at.html). > [@](#): > > Again, it is evil and wrong to shop at Walmart, but totally OK to vacation at Aspen. [Migrant workers in Colorado also have some fairly deplorable living conditions.](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/us/22wyoming.html) \ I don’t even know how to live without contributing to this kind of inhumane practice in one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/95 "2011-09-01T23:37:40Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > The program makes quite clear that virtually all of the jobs are entry-level and minimum wage, and that one of the jobs they might work in, is a factory. > > The program DOES NOT make any promise about the job having ANY educational element. Just the right to work, the opportunity to live in the US, and a chance to travel, and experience which is regarded as inherently educational. Bullshit on both counts. They applied for the J1 visa internship program. Let’s see what the “Council for Educational Travel” claims about their scheme, shall we: “The CETUSA J-1 Visa Trainee and Internship Programs provide international participants with opportunities for **professional development** through employment in an American workplace. Interns and trainees **gain professional experience** and insight into American know-how\*\* in the field of their education\*\* along with a greater understanding of American society, life and culture. American businesses hosting international trainees and interns have a unique chance to strengthen their global reach while benefiting from the experience of cultural exchange.” [http://www.cetusa.org/public/offers/internship-and-trainee-programs](http://www.cetusa.org/public/offers/internship-and-trainee-programs) Now would you care to tell me how a 3rd year med student is gaining professional experience “in the field of their education” by packing boxes of chocolate? And as for the idea that the fees they paid are fair value, to spend 3 months in the US, two of which packing boxes? That is weapons grade bullshit. These people paid between $3500 - $6000 for these “intern” positions. I can get economy return tickets to the US for $1000 from pretty much any country in the world, and a tourist visa is $140. That leaves me between $2000 - $4000 spending money for 90 days, and a backpacker/hosteller can easily manage that. So tell me again just why these people shouldn’t be royally pissed off that they have spent a decent chunk of money to spend 2 months earning less than they’ve laid out, just to spend 30 days travelling round the us? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/96 "2011-09-01T23:40:36Z")
What’s the “inhumane practice” exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/97 "2011-09-01T23:55:00Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What’s the “inhumane practice” exactly? How about we start with this: “In 2000, the Labor Department filed a lawsuit accusing a Colorado ranch, John Peroulis & Sons Sheep, of beating, starving and exploiting its sheepherders for 10 years.” Does beating and starving people qualify as inhumane practice to you? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/98 "2011-09-02T00:13:23Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Bullshit on both counts. They applied for the J1 visa internship program. Let’s see what the “Council for Educational Travel” claims about their scheme, shall we: > > “The CETUSA J-1 Visa Trainee and Internship Programs provide international participants with opportunities for **professional development** through employment in an American workplace. Interns and trainees **gain professional experience** and insight into American know-how\*\* in the field of their education\*\* along with a greater understanding of American society, life and culture. American businesses hosting international trainees and interns have a unique chance to strengthen their global reach while benefiting from the experience of cultural exchange.” > > [http://www.cetusa.org/public/offers/internship-and-trainee-programs](http://www.cetusa.org/public/offers/internship-and-trainee-programs) > ? That’s the Intern/Trainee Program. The workers were participating in the Work & Travel Program, which promises: \*Most participants work in entry-level jobs. All participants receive, at minimum, a federally mandated minimum wage; often, the wage is higher. CETUSA works with many employers across the U.S. and offers a variety of positions to participants. A few examples might include: ski lift attendant, hostess, maintenance person, busser, housekeeper, amusement park staff member, cashier and cook. Most postitions do not require a significant amount of previous training or experience.\* So aside from the fact that the program you quoted isn’t the one the participants were actually in, I agree it would be bad if Intern/Trainee Program participants were working in a factory. Except, they weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/99 "2011-09-02T00:26:52Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > How about we start with this: > > “In 2000, the Labor Department filed a lawsuit accusing a Colorado ranch, John Peroulis & Sons Sheep, of beating, starving and exploiting its sheepherders for 10 years.” > > Does beating and starving people qualify as inhumane practice to you? As soon as we start talking about treatment of sheepherders at that ranch, we’ll let you know. Until then, we’ll just point and laugh at you for quoting the wrong program and generally thinking you know better than other people how to run their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727/100 "2011-09-02T02:19:37Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > As soon as we start talking about treatment of sheepherders at that ranch, we’ll let you know. Until then, we’ll just point and laugh at you for quoting the wrong program and generally thinking you know better than other people how to run their lives. That’s it. Bait, bait, bait! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-capitalism-at-its-finest-hershey-walkout/594727.md?page=6)