# American Christianity: taking control, or last gasp? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2018, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131 "2018-07-18T08:04:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/41 "2018-07-21T13:46:57Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > My own opinion is that religious control of the country might increase sharply in the very near future, but that after that potential swell, Christianity itself will have a very steep decline and will cease to matter in US politics (i.e. only a scattered few old people will care about religion at all anymore)… Christianity will indeed have a sharp decline. So much so that remaining Christians will be persecuted and killed for their beliefs. The very book, the Bible, that many people mock and despise today foretold this. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/42 "2018-07-21T14:03:08Z")
I never ceased to be amazed at the persecution fantasies that some Christians have. The rest of the world might think they’re wrong, misguided, or ignorant but I find it hard to fathom them being seen as so threatening they’ll be hunted down and killed. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/43 "2018-07-21T14:04:04Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > Christianity will indeed have a sharp decline. So much so that remaining Christians will be persecuted and killed for their beliefs. The very book, the Bible, that many people mock and despise today foretold this. The bible foretold how long it would be until Jesus returned. How’s that workin’ out for you? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/44 "2018-07-21T15:00:03Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > The very book, the Bible, that many people mock and despise today foretold this. Not that many. The problem ain’t the manual, it’s the users. ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/45 "2018-07-21T15:02:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I never ceased to be amazed at the persecution fantasies that some Christians have. The rest of the world might think they’re wrong, misguided, or ignorant but I find it hard to fathom them being seen as so threatening they’ll be hunted down and killed. Take a look at N. Korea, China, and the Middle East. It is a crime to merely possess a Bible in some places. ---
**Author:** ![Oddball\_92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b3f665/32.png) [@Oddball\_92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oddball_92)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/46 "2018-07-21T15:04:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The bible foretold how long it would be until Jesus returned. How’s that workin’ out for you? No, the Bible does NOT foretell that, and it is working out fine for me. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/47 "2018-07-21T15:05:28Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > I don’t think there’s any danger of theocracy in America anytime soon. If anything, Trump is a move away from Theocracy…and toward other things that are not related to religion at all. It might not be a literal theocracy, but it can follow the Putin model of using conservative religious beliefs and institutions to serve a criminal regime. You empower extremist religious groups to impose their beliefs on society as a whole and in exchange get their cooperation to help you maintain control. The people at the top might not have any adherence to traditional Christian beliefs but they can give social and legal power to religious extremists as part of their basket of tools to maintain control over the country. This happens in a lot of dictatorships. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/48 "2018-07-21T15:53:13Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > Take a look at N. Korea, China, and the Middle East. It is a crime to merely possess a Bible in some places. North Korea is a tiny country and such an outlier that it can be disregarded. There’s no way on earth everyone else is going to start emulating the Hermit Kingdom. It is not illegal to _posses_ a Bible in China. That’s BS. What is illegal is to proselytize, promote, or publicly worship outside the officially recognized Christian groups. They aren’t hunting down and executing Christians. Nor is it illegal to _possess_ a Bible in the Middle East, where Jews, Muslims, and Christians all regard it as a holy book. What gets Christians butt-hurt is not everyone tolerates their relentless drive to covert others to their belief system. Other countries are not as tolerant as the US in regards to unwanted intrusions and harassment of others. But, again, the folks who are hunting down and killing Christians in that part of the world are not doing so based on those people being Christians, they’re doing it to _everyone_ who isn’t just like them. Given that it’s them against the rest of the world I anticipate that they aren’t going to win and impose their system on everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/49 "2018-07-21T16:50:24Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > Christianity will indeed have a sharp decline. So much so that remaining Christians will be persecuted and killed for their beliefs. The very book, the Bible, that many people mock and despise today foretold this. Martyrdom sounds so much more stimulating and noble than does the vague continuing attrition actually happening. The predictions in the New Testament about persecution were about persecutions that were already happening at the time of writing, and they continued, until Christianity triumphed and Christians could go about persecuting each other instead. I hear you about the mocking and despising though. Wish people would quit that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/50 "2018-07-21T18:36:59Z")
> [@Oddball\_92](#): > > No, the Bible does NOT foretell that, and it is working out fine for me. Matthew 24:30-34 > [@](#): > > 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. > > 32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 **Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.** ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/51 "2018-07-22T02:21:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The bible foretold how long it would be until Jesus returned. How’s that workin’ out for you? In fact Jesus said that some of the people who were present at one of his speeches would still be alive when he returned. So either it wasn’t true, or he’s been back and no one noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/52 "2018-07-23T13:48:40Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > American Evangelicals are still pretty numerous, but remember that Trump ran as a pretty secular candidate. I’m not sure how you reached this conclusion. He spent as much time building his religious conservative _bona fides_ as he did talking about walls. The two most common soundbites from his campaign speeches (other than “lock her up”) were “we’re going to make Mexico pay for it,” and “we’re going to be saying Merry Christmas again.” ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/53 "2018-07-23T13:56:45Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > My own opinion is that religious control of the country might increase sharply in the very near future, but that after that potential swell, Christianity itself will have a very steep decline and will cease to matter in US politics (i.e. only a scattered few old people will care about religion at all anymore). > > Maybe I’m too optimistic. I see no signs that a theocracy is even possible, much less on the way, although politicians like to dog whistle about “American values.” I have heard the claims that the newer generation is become more secular but I’ll believe it the first time we elect an open atheist president. Trump is probably the closest we’ve come but he pays the requisite lip service to religion. I’ve always lamented that we officially have a secular government but a large portion of the population demands that its elected officials must be Christian or at least \*some \*religion. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/54 "2018-07-23T17:18:56Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I see no signs that a theocracy is even possible, much less on the way, although politicians like to dog whistle about “American values.” I have heard the claims that the newer generation is become more secular but I’ll believe it the first time we elect an open atheist president. Trump is probably the closest we’ve come but he pays the requisite lip service to religion. I’ve always lamented that we officially have a secular government but a large portion of the population demands that its elected officials must be Christian or at least \*some \*religion. Do you think there are a lot of people in the US who really would vote for a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Hindu because at least they were religious? I get the impression that even for Mitt Romney being a not-quite-Christian was a disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/55 "2018-07-23T17:24:38Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Do you think there are a lot of people in the US who really would vote for a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Hindu because at least they were religious? I get the impression that even for Mitt Romney being a not-quite-Christian was a disadvantage. It would be a disadvantage in the primaries but once it gets to the general election it’s all about the Rs and Ds. Republicans would overwhelmingly vote for a non-Christian Republican over a Christian Democrat, and the Democrats even more so for a non-Christian Democrat over a Christian Republican. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/56 "2018-07-23T17:45:05Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Do you think there are a lot of people in the US who really would vote for a Buddhist or a Muslim or a Hindu because at least they were religious? I get the impression that even for Mitt Romney being a not-quite-Christian was a disadvantage. I didn’t say president, I said elected officials. There are [members of Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_111th_United_States_Congress#Religious_demographics) who are Jewish, Muslim and Buddhist. So far there has been only one declared atheist in Congress. The progressiveness of requirements by voters for president seem to lag behind progress for other elected positions. I remember when it was an issue that Kennedy was a Catholic, though I never really understood why. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/57 "2018-07-23T17:48:43Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I remember when it was an issue that Kennedy was a Catholic, though I never really understood why. AIUI, part of the concern was the idea that Catholics take orders from the Pope or are required to be subservient to what the Pope wants them to do. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/58 "2018-07-23T19:10:04Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > AIUI, part of the concern was the idea that Catholics take orders from the Pope or are required to be subservient to what the Pope wants them to do. I expect that that was cover for “he’s not one of us” rather than a serious/legitimate objection. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/59 "2018-07-23T19:13:10Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > So far there has been only one declared atheist in Congress. And yet there have been hundreds of atheists in Congress - all but one decided it was better not to mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Bassman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bassman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bassman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131/60 "2018-07-24T00:39:53Z")
I came across [this article](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/07/christian-democracy-authoritarianism-trump) online and came over here to start a new thread on it but saw it would fit nicely in this thread. It’s an interesting question- might there be room for European-style Christian democracy in America? I think some movement along these lines could enrich the American political scene by giving an outlet for religious conservatives other than today’s Religious Right and could even draw in some moderate Democrats. One thing to make clear- most Christian democratic parties are “inspired by Christian values” than a true confessional party. Also, many of these parties have made their peace with same-sex marriage and don’t want to outright ban abortion, which would be a clear break with the Religious Right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-christianity-taking-control-or-last-gasp/818131.md?page=4)