I think he’s a hero. Potentially a traitor, but then I think our government is bullshit and should be circumvented at every opportunity. I want badly to be adopted by Canada.
pleeeeeease?
Bradley Manning is a British citizen?
Regards,
Shodan
Does he have double 0 status?
Yes, under British law (his mother is Welsh). If you google “Bradley Manning British citizen” you’ll find plenty of information, including whether it’s true (yes), whether he cares (no), whether the British government cares (doesn’t seem to), and whether the British public cares (yes, including press, e.g. the Guardian).
What does that have to do with British law?
Shodan: Your cite does not state that he is not a British citizen. It states that he does not consider himself a British citizen, and that he hasn’t taken the obvious steps he might have done to register his British citizenship. It’s not really up to him, though.
Wikipedia cite #1: British_nationality_law#From_1983 “A child born outside the UK on or after 1 January 1983 automatically acquires British citizenship by descent if either parent is a British citizen other than by descent at the time of the birth.”
Cite #2: Bradley_Manning born on “December 17, 1987”… mother born “in Haverfordwest, Wales.”
Since his mother was British by birth (i.e. not by descent) and he was born abroad after 1983, he is a citizen until he officially renounces it to the Home Secretary.
I’m not sure I’d say treason, but he most certainly broke the law by releasing classified material. I’ve had a variety of clearances at various times in my career from the time I enlisted in the Navy, and I know full well what the rules are about protecting classified material.
He should be tried, and if convicted, he deserves a long, long prison sentence. I don’t know exactly what he released, but the damage certain information can lead to if in the wrong hands cannot be exaggerated. We’re not talking about sharing the colonel’s 11 herbs and spices here.
There was no damaging information in the files. It was all obsolete as anything that could have been useful to a hypothetical “enemy.”
But that’s not part of the law. There are still statutory punishments for releasing any material that is classified, regardless of how it is later used. He wasn’t working for Enron or WorldCom, you sign all kinds of stuff when you get a security clearance that tells you exactly the section of U.S. code that you can find yourself being punished under if you violate it (and equivalent documents exist for people in the military pointing to the equivalent code.)
It’s sort of like saying I shouldn’t be punished for driving with a BAC of .15 because I didn’t hurt anyone. The analogy is a bit of a stretch, but it’s the same principle, drunk driving at all is illegal because it is dangerous. It is punishable regardless of whether you actually cause harm to anyone. Releasing classified information is dangerous for a lot of reasons, while not all disclosures are dangerous, the government and society have an interest in being able to protect classified information generally. This means that people should be punished for actions that go against this when they hold classified information because of a position of trust within government, the crime is in their intention to willfully disclose. Whatever happens after that may only be relevant in looking at charging the person with more serious crimes. For example in this case if Bradley Manning had released information to the Taliban about U.S. troop movements and such, the content of that information would make his actions eligible for more serious charges. Just like killing someone while driving drunk makes you eligible for steeper charges/punishments than just driving while drunk. However, there is still valid cause to criminalize the behavior itself.
Nothing. Since “he is an American”, has broken American military law, while a member of the American military, British law is irrelevant.
I would have thought that was obvious, but I guess not.
Regards,
Shodan
I think the point is that under British law Manning could still be considered a citizen regardless of what he says or what he claims.
American law is much the same way, if you are a born into American citizenship just the act of living abroad your entire life and never claiming any rights as an American citizen does not erase the citizenship. You’d have to actually go through the process of legally renouncing said citizenship.
His nationality is not relevant for the criminal aspect of the proceedings, but the poll is about whether he should be executed or not. The UK is a close ally of the USA, and it does not have the death penalty. Britons are watching the case more closely because there is a British connection, and whether he is executed or not will have an impact on the overall state of US-UK relations. A very tiny minor impact, to be sure, but I’d prefer the relationship not be moving in a negative direction.
He’s innocent until proven guilty. However his treatment at the hands of his jailers is far more criminal than anything he is accused of. If found guilty he should be sentenced to time served and then sue the fucking government. Everyone in the chain of command up to and including Obama should be tried for torturing him.
In fact that is irrelevant to the thread.
The reason I said to stipulate that Manning committed the acts of which he is accused is that I was wondering how whether American Dopers feel betrayed by his actions. This ties in to whether said Dopers consider Wikileaks an enemy of this nation (which is why I haven’t complained about anybody saying the contrary; attitudes about that are precisely what I wished to probe).
As said upthread, it was careless of me not to edit out the phrase “guilty of treason” from the poll questions, but that horse has left the barn, galloped over the cliff, and been eaten by coyotes at this point.
Unfortunately it is also irrelevant to his tormentors. But I digress. So I’ll go with let’s nuke Quantico and let God sort them out.
I dont’ feel betrayed by his actions. Releasing documents you think the public should know about so they can participate in government isn’t treason. Starting a war based on intentional lies (like the Iraq and Vietnam wars were) is far more treasonous, and nobody will ever be held accountable for that.
What did he do that was so bad? He released low level classified documents.
In this country we usually try people a little bit before we hang them.
I’d like to see the evidence against Bradley Manning before I make up my mind about what he’s accused of.
That’s the problem. It’s hard to burn the monster or lynch the black guy if you stop, get facts and think about it and make up your mind. It’s what’s wrong with this country. :rolleyes:
What in the world are you guys talking about? What Bradley Manning did is well known and not in dispute. There’s no reason we can’t discuss his guilt or innocence, and what punishment if any is merited. No one is forming a lynch mob to drag him out of prison and hang him from the nearest tree.