# American Civil War: Did the UNION have any allies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2002, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037 "2002-05-09T06:27:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/1 "2002-05-09T06:27:31Z")
Pardon me for posting, but I was wondering…during the American Civil War, did the Union have any allies? I recall that the Confederacy was somewhat “cozy” with Britain and France, to the point that the Confederate Navy had essentially privateer ships manned by British crews. But the only offer of assistance or aid to the Union that I can remember was the King of Siam offeering Lincoln some war elephants (Which, however impractical, I thick at least would have looked REALLY cool.) Can anyone help? Thanks for your time, Ranchoth ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/2 "2002-05-09T06:35:52Z")
Public opinion was with the Union in many European countries, particularly Britain. However the uncertain nature of the conflict and the Confederacy’s economic clout ( even if “King Cotton” didn’t turn out to be as decisive as they had hoped ), led most nations to hedge their bets. Even what appeared to be support at the time, was often rather equivocal. Thus the overwintering of the Russian Baltic Fleet in Union ports one season was played up by the Union as a show of support and a great morale booster, when actually he Russians were more concerned with the possibility of a European war and wanted to make sure their fleet wasn’t icebound. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/3 "2002-05-09T06:39:34Z")
Russia was friendly to the North, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/4 "2002-05-09T07:31:19Z")
According to Tom Burnam in _Dictionary of Misinformation,_ Lincoln took the possibility that Britain and France were potential allies of the Confederacy, very seriously. In fact, Burman asserts that Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation to convince potential Confederate allies that the Civil War was a war against slavery (Lincoln’s actual aim, of course, was to save the Union). This way Britian and France would not ally with the South “in order to save their major source of cotton.” After all, the Proclamation “freed” the slaves only in the Confedate states–not elsewhere in the country–and would have no legal force, applying only to an enemy with which the United States was at war. (I also understand that the British magazine _Punch_ favored the South and frequently attacked Lincoln or the Union in its articles and cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Propski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Guy\_Propski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Propski)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/5 "2002-05-09T12:46:29Z")
As I recall, early on in the war there was an incident involving British and Union ships. Hotheads on both sides wanted to use this an excuse to start fighting. It was only due last minute efforts by Lincoln and the dying Prince of Wales that the issue was resolved. From that point on, the Brits were officially neutral, despite the Confederacy’s attempt to leverage its position as a cotton supplier to Britain. ---
**Author:** ![galen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@galen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/6 "2002-05-09T14:02:15Z")
Karl Marx and the British labor movement. Marx said “Labor in the white skin can never be free while labor in the black skin is branded”. Presumebly, it was British conservatives who supported the Confederacy. Some things never change. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/7 "2002-05-09T14:18:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by galen \* > \*\*Presumebly, it was British conservatives who supported the Confederacy. Some things never change. \*\* Well, I don’t think current British conservatives support the Confederacy.🙂 It was mainly the textile manufacturers, actually, because they needed the access to cotton. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/8 "2002-05-09T14:22:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guy Propski \* > \*\*As I recall, early on in the war there was an incident involving British and Union ships. Hotheads on both sides wanted to use this an excuse to start fighting. It was only due last minute efforts by Lincoln and the dying Prince of Wales that the issue was resolved. From that point on, the Brits were officially neutral, despite the Confederacy’s attempt to leverage its position as a cotton supplier to Britain. \*\* The Union warship _San Jacinto_ boarded the British mail steamer _Trent_ and took two Confederate diplomats into custody, in what everyone conceded was a violation of the laws of the sea. After that incident, there was a movement in Britain for war with the US (they sent some troops to Canada, as a show of seriousness), but after a couple of months the whole thing blew over. The US needed a couple of shipments of munitions, so they turned the diplomats back over to the British and life returned more or less to normal. The Emancipation Proclimation made European recognition of the Confederacy politically impossible – there were massive public pro-Union demonstrations in Europe following it. Prior to that, Europe would have loved to recognize the Confederacy, but they were hedging their bets to see who’d win. They were somewhat worried about giving aid to the South and then losing it if the South lost – which is indeed what happened. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/9 "2002-05-09T16:12:35Z")
I was under the impression that France recognized the sovereignty of the Confederacy, though it never provided military support. Is that true? ---
**Author:** ![evilhanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba8739/32.png) [@evilhanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilhanz)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/10 "2002-05-09T17:00:09Z")
No nation formally recognized the Confederacy as a sovereign entity and no nation entered into formal diplomatic relations or exchanged amabassadors. Several countries sent military observers to both sides of the conflict, including France and Prussia, but this was more to understand the modern battlefield and prepare for future European conflicts than an implicit gesture of solidarity. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2002, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/11 "2002-05-09T19:42:50Z")
For the most part the European Powers were prepared to live with the American Civil War what ever its outcome. If the Union was dissolved Europe was relieved of a trading rival. If the Union was preserved then trade would go on as before. The exception to this was France which had aspirations in Mexico and was perfectly happy to see the Yankee Power kept away from the Rio Grande. At the end of the war a fair number of volunteer regiments and most of the regular army were sent to Texas under Sherman to make sure that the France adventure in Mexico did not get out of hand. France however was not willing to do anything overt without British support and Britain was not willing to intervene until the Confederacy showed that it would probably gain its independence. While Britain was happy to sell stuff to the South (and the North too), after the capture of Vicksburg and the Emancipation Proclamation there wasn’t much chance that Britain was going to give the Confederacy anything more than lip service. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/12 "2002-12-03T13:46:57Z")
According to Robert Ripley–admittedly, not the ultimate source of data on Civil War history–in 1865, the American Counsul in Melbourne visited Crown Solicitor Henry Field Gurner at his home–at dinnertime–to warn him that the Confederate raider _Shenandoah_ was about to leave port to prey upon Union shipping. The consul, William Blanchard, warned Gurner that unless he ordered the Confederate ship intercepted the Crown would be liable for all losses. Gurner refused to take any action during his meal; meanwhile the _Shenandoah_ escaped and caused $6.25 million, which the British government eventually paid. That doesn’t tell us much in favor of the discretion of the government of Australia at the time, I regret to say. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/13 "2002-12-03T14:06:46Z")
There was no “government of Australia” at the time. Australia was a geographic entity but not a political one. Melbourne was the principal city of Victoria, a colony established in 1851. Victoria had some limited powers of self-government (or at least the white population did) but foreign relations were a matter for the UK government. I don’t know whether the colonial government of Victoria could have ordered the _Shenandoah_ to be intercepted; it may have had no authority over the Royal Navy. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/14 "2002-12-03T14:19:18Z")
Still, UDS, the British Government did pay the $6.25 million damages to the Union, so they apparently recognized that they had liability in some way. I also stand corrected about the “government of Australia.” :o Even Ripley used the phrase “colony of Victoria” in his article. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/15 "2002-12-03T16:40:53Z")
A Confederate raider? In 1865??? In Melbourne??? WTF? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/16 "2002-12-03T17:07:48Z")
Neither the Union nor the Confederacy had any “allies” if you define an ally as someone fighting (or ready to fight) on your behalf. Each side had well-wishers, each side had overseas trading partners, but to use a Southern cliche, most other nations figured they didn’t have a dog in this fight. Nations that needed cotton were happy to buy it from the Confederacy, but they weren’t about to spend money or lives in support of the Confederate war effort. ---
**Author:** ![deathawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@deathawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deathawk)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/17 "2002-12-03T17:20:01Z")
Spavined Geling - minor quible, but I believe it was Sheridan, not Sherman who was sent to Texas. Excellent post, although I would characterize the move to send him more as a not so vieled threat - Sheridan was known as the most aggressive of the Union Generals. Once the war was over (before it for that matter), Lincoln was quite interested in re-establishing the Monroe doctrine. Great summary of the diplomatic situation. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/18 "2002-12-03T18:01:15Z")
The king of Siam considered himself an ally and offered to send Lincoln elephants to help in the war effort. See [http://www.archives.gov/media\_desk/press\_releases/nr99-122.html](http://www.archives.gov/media_desk/press_releases/nr99-122.html) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/19 "2002-12-03T18:06:37Z")
IIRC one of the minor German states recognized Dixie as the local prince was married to a belle. ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2002, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037/20 "2002-12-03T21:00:21Z")
I heard that the Russian Navy was positioned off the west coast to prevent anyone from messing with Union holdings there. Is that true, or do I just have this confused with the Russians using Union ports to escape being icebound? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-did-the-union-have-any-allies/108037.md?page=2)