# American Civil War invasion of Canada? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 20, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992 "2007-04-20T20:25:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cowsticks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@cowsticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowsticks)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/1 "2007-04-20T20:25:13Z")
I know of the plan in the 1930s to invade Canada (obviously an unlikely scenario), but did a plan exist during the civil war to invade Canada? I believe I have read somewhere that if the North lost they had a plan to invade Canada to gain more territory, is this true? Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/2 "2007-04-20T20:43:27Z")
The only reason the Union would have to invade Canada would be if the British sided with the CSA. Also “Canada” in the modern sense didn’t exist yet. The _Province of Canada_ was a British colony made up of what is now Ontario and Quebec. New Brunswick and Nova Scotia were still seperate colonies. The _Dominion of Canada_ wasn’t founded until 1867. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/3 "2007-04-20T20:45:30Z")
No. Never considered. However… [ol] [li]Confederate Agents in Canada launched terrorist/paramilitary raids into the Union.[/li][li]Canada was a hotbed of Confederate espionage.[/li][li]A large # of blockade runners were fitted out in the Maritime Provinces. Crewed there, too.[/li][li]Clandestine retaliation by Union Secret Service personnel may or may not have taken place.[/li][li]After siezing a British flagged ship at sea, & removing (illegally) 2 Confederate diplomats, the US & the British Empire almost went to war. Plans to invade very likely were discussed then, **contingent upon England declaring war**.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/4 "2007-04-20T23:37:19Z")
Um, wouldn’t it be pretty idiotic to invade another nation after you _just lost a war_? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/5 "2007-04-21T00:20:16Z")
There’s a big difference between the sort of war planning that was carried out in the Civil War and the [Color-coded War Plans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Color-coded_War_Plans) developed by the Army General Staff in the 20s and 30s. The former were produced often on the fly by the commanding general, in consultation with a small group of aides and political leaders, and were designed to meet the immediate objectives of the war. Since there was never a serious movement to invade Canada, there was no war planning done. The creation of the General Staff in 1903, however, turned war planning into a much more formalized and bureaucratic endeavor. Now you had staff who were supposed to think during peacetime about where the next conflict might be (considering even unlikely scenarios) and to draw up detailed war plans to mobilize, deploy and engage in the conflict. I doubt many on the General Staff thought we’d be invading Canada in the 30s, but better to have the plan on the shelf just in case. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/6 "2007-04-21T01:01:37Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] No. Never considered. However… [ol] [li]Confederate Agents in Canada launched terrorist/paramilitary raids into the Union.[/li]… [/ol] [/QUOTE] Yep, the [St Albans, Vermont raid](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Albans_raid). ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/7 "2007-04-21T01:07:45Z")
[QUOTE=HubZilla] Yep, the [St Albans, Vermont raid](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Albans_raid). [/QUOTE] Damn it, I was going to bring up that horrible event of domination and absolute destruction of the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/8 "2007-04-21T02:04:32Z")
[QUOTE=cowsticks] the civil war [/QUOTE] Don’t you mean the [War of Northern Aggression?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=416607) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/9 "2007-04-21T02:18:17Z")
[QUOTE=Operation Ripper] Don’t you mean the [War of Northern Aggression?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=416607) [/QUOTE] Agreed. There was nothing civil about it. It was a brutal military affair. ---
**Author:** ![fifty-six](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@fifty-six](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fifty-six)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/10 "2007-04-21T05:01:20Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Um, wouldn’t it be pretty idiotic to invade another nation after you _just lost a war_? [/QUOTE] Only time will tell 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/11 "2007-04-21T05:57:32Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Um, wouldn’t it be pretty idiotic to invade another nation after you _just lost a war_? [/QUOTE] What war was just lost? Anyway, there were some people grumbling about going to war with Canada after the Civil War because they were a bit pissed about English support for the rebels. I don’t think many people seriously considered going to war so soon after suffering nearly 600,000 casualties. Anyway, England paid the United States some cash as compensation and all was well. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/12 "2007-04-21T07:29:12Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] What war was just lost? […] I don’t think many people seriously considered going to war so soon after suffering nearly 600,000 casualties. [/QUOTE] I think that’s **Captain Carrot** ’s point. If the North had just lost the Civil War, immediately starting a war with Britain would have been a very bad idea. Even after _winning_ the war most people were tired of it. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/13 "2007-04-21T15:29:57Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] Anyway, England paid the United States some cash as compensation and all was well. [/QUOTE] Can you provide some more details about this? ---
**Author:** ![79Eric](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/7/ecccb3/32.png) [@79Eric](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/79Eric)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/14 "2007-04-21T19:48:39Z")
Yeah the war of northern aggression. I remember an episode of the “Beverly Hillbillies” where Granny says “the north invaded the United States of America” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/15 "2007-04-21T20:42:53Z")
[QUOTE=Cerowyn] Can you provide some more details about this? [/QUOTE] Sure. The British aided the Confederate States, for example they allowed the CSS Alabama, a warship built in Liverpool, to be put to sea for use against the United States. Something that kind of pissed off the USA for reasons I think are pretty obvious. There were some other hard feelings about the lack of British neutrality during the ACW as well. Following the Civil War there was at least one senator pushing for Britain to compensate the U.S. by ceding Canada. To be fair, there had also been problems with the Fenian Brotherhood, a bunch of Irish-Americans based in the U.S., who were raiding Canada in order to put pressure on the British to withdraw from Ireland. There was a very real possibilty of a war between the United States and the United Kingdom. Unlike 1812, I think this one would have gone very badly for the Canadians. However, cooler heads prevailed, and the UK/US entered into the Treaty of Washington (1871) where the U.S. was compensated around 15,000,000 dollars and granted fishing rights in Canada but the UK never admitted to doing anything wrong. The Fenian Brotherhood stopped raiding Canada, though I can’t remember why, and this treaty helped pave the way towards the demilitarization of the US/Canada border as well as an eventual British/American alliance. Marc ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-civil-war-invasion-of-canada/400992/16 "2007-04-22T02:26:32Z")
[QUOTE=flurb] T I doubt many on the General Staff thought we’d be invading Canada in the 30s, but better to have the plan on the shelf just in case. [/QUOTE] And sometimes not even “just in case”- some were pure thought experiments. However, the USA was (very temporarily) a super-power right after the Civil war. We had the best army, full of veterans, and the best navy - as long as they didn’t have to cross the Atlantic in high seas. The USA could have walked into Canada and the British could have done nothing- _except_ cripple our overseas trade, which was likely more valuable than Canada at that point in time.