# American English has no word for .... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 29, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659 "2009-10-29T21:12:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/61 "2009-10-30T01:41:41Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Sounds gezellig 😃 Well, it’s not too far away, is it? I wonder if the Danish/Dutch dictionary, or the reverse, makes a passing reference to the similarity of these terms. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/62 "2009-10-30T01:43:16Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I know you are joking here, but I have to admit that reading the post about ‘saudade’ brought the feeling over me. A whistful, longing feeling of wanting to have this word be a word we actually use in English. Particulaly because this time of the year is a time that brings this feeling on for me. Brisk Autumn air and colorful leaves always gives me a ghostly yearning for that feeling I used to get in childhood around Halloween time. > > But, anyways, can someone confirm for me that ‘wabi sabi’ is indeed pronounced ‘wobby sobby’. I love the idea of that word, and I always am afraid to use it because I am worried I will pronounce it incorrectly. You feel your pronunciation might be a bit dodgy then? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/63 "2009-10-30T01:46:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, one concept is the particular class denoted by the British English word “biscuit”, in all of and no more than its generality. Giles’ claim is that American English lacks a single word for this particular conceptual category, whatever it is, even if it has single words which refer to every “particular” variety of good which falls under this heading. Is that a real concept, though? In American, I might say “I want a cookie”, and I’d be happy if I got an Oreo or a chocolate chip cookie or a Thin Mint, so “cookie” is a reasonable category. But would a Brit ever say “I want a biscuit”, and not care whether it was a sweet or a savory one? Really, is there any situation where someone would want to communicate the concept “a thing which is either a cookie or a cracker”? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/64 "2009-10-30T01:48:26Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > No – the words “cookie” and “cracker” have entered British English. _Cracker_ in the sense of a crisp baked good dates from 1739, and originated in the UK. _Cookie_ did indeed enter British English via North America, however. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/65 "2009-10-30T01:51:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is that a real concept, though? In American, I might say “I want a cookie”, and I’d be happy if I got an Oreo or a chocolate chip cookie or a Thin Mint, so “cookie” is a reasonable category. But would a Brit ever say “I want a biscuit”, and not care whether it was a sweet or a savory one? Really, is there any situation where someone would want to communicate the concept “a thing which is either a cookie or a cracker”? “Where’s the biscuit section in this supermarket?” ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/66 "2009-10-30T01:53:09Z")
\*\*American English has no word for … \*\* …a non-pedigreed cat; a feline mutt. We will adopt the word “moggie” if I have anything to say about it. And I am going to say something about it. (See Evil Overlord thread in MPSIMS). ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/67 "2009-10-30T01:57:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [_Cookie_ did indeed enter British English via North America, however. I just checked in my OED, and apparently “cookie” was originally Scottish English. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/68 "2009-10-30T02:04:13Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > “Where’s the biscuit section in this supermarket?” Over there, just past the water biscuits. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/69 "2009-10-30T02:21:17Z")
> [@freckafree](#): > > There isn’t a word in English to describe the relationship of parents whose kids are married to each other. For example, if my son is married to Sally Smith, and Sally’s father and mother are John and Mary Smith, the most concise way to describe the relationship is to say “John and Mary Smith are my son’s in-laws.” > > As I understand it, such a word does exist in some African languages. When you say, “John and Mary Smith are our \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_,” people understand that your kid is married to their kid. When my brother was engaged, his fiancée’s brother’s wife’s mother told my mom, “When Theo and Jen get married, there’s a word in Yiddish for what I’ll be to you!” (It turns out she was slightly exaggerating, but there is a word in Yiddish for your kid’s in-laws.) Similarly, in Spanish, the original meaning of the words _compadre_ and _comadre_ is “godparents of your children or parents of your godchildren,” with the meaning “very close friend” being because that’s who you would ask to be your kid’s godparents. As I understand it, that was the original meaning of the word _gossip_ in English, which began life as _godsib_, i.e. god-sibling, with the semantic shift of very close friend -\> idle conversation. Analogously, the French word for gossip is _commérage_, from _commère_ (the etymological equivalent of _comadre_). Anyway, one fun thing is Québécois French’s tendency to borrow English words and give them meanings that not only don’t the words have, but we don’t even have words for at all. Three examples are _nowhere_ (as in _partir s’un nowhere_), meaning a random road trip with no plan of where you’re going to end up; _destroy_ (_j’me sentais tellement destroy_), meaning completely drained, wasted, or physically, emotionally, or morally exhausted; and _design_ (_c’est très design_), meaning attractive/chic because well and trendily designed, such as an interior with lots of chocolate wood or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/70 "2009-10-30T02:22:27Z")
> [@Scheidt-Hoch](#): > > We do: it’s ‘chill’. The words have the same relationship that ‘foul’ and ‘filth’ have. I’d guess ‘chill’ has become less common as a noun because ‘coldness’ or similar words have taken over. I usually say “coolth”. I think I got that here, years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/71 "2009-10-30T02:35:17Z")
We have no single word to distinguish maternal and paternal uncles and aunts. Neither do we have a good crop of words to deal with polygamous marriages. Arabic needs (and has) such words. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/72 "2009-10-30T02:50:02Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > We have no single word to distinguish maternal and paternal uncles and aunts. Kin terms are an entire field of linguistic-cum-anthropological study. There are several different systems depending on whether your blood relations on your father’s or mother’s side are regarded as your relatives based on their gender, birth order, collaterality (in some languages cousins may or may not be the same as siblings), etc. One system names different structures as follows: > [@](#): > > ``` > * Hawaiian: only distinguishes relatives based upon sex and generation. > * Sudanese: no two relatives share the same term. > * Eskimo: in addition to distinguishing relatives based upon sex and generation, also distinguishes between lineal relatives and collateral relatives. > * Iroquois: in addition to sex and generation, also distinguishes between siblings of opposite sexes in the parental generation. > * Crow: a matrilineal system with some features of an Iroquois system, but with a "skewing" feature in which generation is "frozen" for some relatives. > * Omaha: like a Crow system but patrilineal. > > ``` The terms used in most European languages and societies, such as English-speaking ones, are called “Eskimo kinship structure”: > [@](#): > > The Eskimo system places no distinction between patrilineal and matrilineal relatives, instead focusing on differences in kinship distance (the closer the relative is, the more distinguished). The system also emphasizes the nuclear family, identifying directly only the mother, father, brother, and sister (lineal relatives). All other relatives are grouped together into categories. It uses both classificatory and descriptive terms, differentiating between gender, generation, lineal relatives (relatives in the direct line of descent), and collateral relatives (blood relatives not in the direct line of descent). In simple form it is in between both matrilineal and pariline. > > Parental siblings are distinguished only by their sex (Aunt, Uncle). All children of these individuals are lumped together regardless of sex (Cousins). Unlike the Hawaiian system, Ego’s parents are clearly distinguished from their siblings. > **[Kinship terminology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinship_terminology)** > > Kinship terminology is the system used in languages to refer to the persons to whom an individual is related through kinship. Different societies classify kinship relations differently and therefore use different systems of kinship terminology; for example, some languages distinguish between consanguine and affinal uncles (i.e. the brothers of one's parents and the husbands of the sisters of one's parents, respectively), whereas others have only one word to refer to both a father and his brothers... However, even some European languages make distinctions that English doesn’t, and vice-versa. For example, Swedish has different words for paternal and maternal grandmother: \*farmor \*and _mormor_ (and likewise for grandfathers). Contrariwise, modern French doesn’t make a distinction between steps and in-laws – both are _beau-/belle-_: a stepmother and a mother-in-law are both _belle-mère_ (although there are terms that mean son-in-law and daughter-in-law, _gendre_ and _bru_, and an old-fashioned insulting term for a stepmother, _marâtre_ – think Cinderella). ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/73 "2009-10-30T02:54:16Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I know you are joking here, but I have to admit that reading the post about ‘saudade’ brought the feeling over me. A whistful, longing feeling of wanting to have this word be a word we actually use in English. Me too - that feeling I get when I wake up at three in the morning and think about someone I still think fondly of, but that I’ll never see again, and the feeling both warms me and chills me simultaneously. > [@](#): > > But, anyways, can someone confirm for me that ‘wabi sabi’ is indeed pronounced ‘wobby sobby’. Yep. Japanese has very little in the way of pronunciation surprises, or inflection. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/74 "2009-10-30T02:56:31Z")
There’s a question: Why is that kinship structure called “Eskimo”? I mean, sure, it’s the system used by the Eskimos (at least, so I would presume), but it’s also used by a lot of other languages. And I’d expect that the linguists who named the categories were a lot more likely to be speakers of European languages than of Eskimo. So why do we say that Europeans use an Eskimo kinship structure, instead of saying that Eskimos use a European kinship structure? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/75 "2009-10-30T02:59:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There’s a question: Why is that kinship structure called “Eskimo”? I mean, sure, it’s the system used by the Eskimos (at least, so I would presume), but it’s also used by a lot of other languages. And I’d expect that the linguists who named the categories were a lot more likely to be speakers of European languages than of Eskimo. So why do we say that Europeans use an Eskimo kinship structure, instead of saying that Eskimos use a European kinship structure? This system originated in the 19th century, so my hazarded guess is that anthropologists in that period liked to think of themselves as studying and elucidating the quirks of “exotic, primitive” cultures rather than seeing their own culture as a mere object of study. But I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/76 "2009-10-30T03:04:37Z")
The Maori term _whanau_ is loosely translated as “family” but it includes extended relatives and close family friends, and a greater cohesion than the term in English, if that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/77 "2009-10-30T03:06:30Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > I’m going to try and give a definition of “gezellig”: > > It’s the feeling you can enjoy when visiting friends and family, during a nice meal, snuggled up to your girlfriend, walking in the park, doing the dishes, or when you’re getting drunk with strangers. America has that word - _ **Hicadoola!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/78 "2009-10-30T04:35:01Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Oh, now I remember, “Spicy Hot” as opposed to “Temperature Hot.” > > “The meal is too hot.” (But then we have to go on to say which type of hot we mean. Well, we have ‘spicy’. That seems to work. Something we don’t have is word meaning ‘to be hit by dozens of bees fired from the mouth of a robot’. And we (or, rather, you) will need such a word, as soon as I get that reactor running. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/79 "2009-10-30T04:43:17Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I just checked in my OED, and apparently “cookie” was originally Scottish English. Curious. The [online etymology dictionar](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Cookie)y has it as of Dutch origin via North America. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659/80 "2009-10-30T05:39:48Z")
We no longer have a word for what “gay” used to mean. It did NOT mean “happy.” It meant something like light and frivolous and carefree, but beyond what those words mean. Butterflies were gay. A lady’s hat with a big feather or flower in it was gay. Children skipping through a meadow were gay. We no longer have a word for that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-english-has-no-word-for/515659.md?page=5)