# American equivalents to Lexus/Acura/Infiniti? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 22, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897 "2013-10-22T02:06:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/41 "2013-10-23T05:55:27Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > I mean, who would have ever thought that there could be so much in common between a vehicle branded Porsche and a vehicle branded VW? Well they started out the same it stands to reason that they end up the same. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/42 "2013-10-23T06:48:18Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > It seems to me the average Old or Buick customer was somewhere between 50 and “dead”. So I find it a bit odd they chose to drop the enthusiast brand Pontiac rather than the stuffy brand Buick. Was Buick actually doing that better rather than Pontiac, or did they want a brand more upscale than Pontiac, or did they have some delusion they could make Buick appeal to younger buyers. I believe that Buick was doing well in China, while my beloved Pontiac’s were rebadged clones of a stock platform. GM wanted to kill off Dealerships and consolidate, so Pontiac went for the high jump. Declan ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/43 "2013-10-23T07:37:07Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > In Japan there is no Acura, the higher end line there is still called Honda. Not sure if that is true for the other Japanese brands. There is no Infinity either. And Lexus only became available in 2003. Toyota had, and still has, a luxury series for their domestic market – the Crown. Nissan has the Fuga and Honda, the Legend to cover the upscale market here. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/44 "2013-10-23T09:21:01Z")
… and then there was Saturn, which pretended to be an independent automaker, but was just another GM (I remember seeing them referred to as a ‘baby Olds’). As soon as they started getting successful, the mother company rushed in, cannibalized the company, and forced them back into the GM way of doing things - which, of course, destroyed the company. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/45 "2013-10-23T14:18:34Z")
> [@lawoot](#): > > … and then there was Saturn, which pretended to be an independent automaker, but was just another GM (I remember seeing them referred to as a ‘baby Olds’). That’s not the way I remember it. Saturn was always marketed as a GM brand, not an independent. It was equivalent to a Chevy or Olds or any other brand. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/46 "2013-10-23T14:42:42Z")
They may not have hidden the GM connect, but they sure didn’t push it. You see any mention of GM in these commercials? [Hula](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHFoc9UkLpQ) [Moment of Truth](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmDZGDMkBac) Note the slogan: “A different kind of company. A different kind of car.” Not exactly screaming out the connection to GM, are they? ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/47 "2013-10-23T14:44:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That’s not the way I remember it. Saturn was always marketed as a GM brand, not an independent. It was equivalent to a Chevy or Olds or any other brand. It was a GM brand, but at the beginning their models were completely separate from those offered by other GM divisions (that is, they were not badge engineered). Later on came the Saturn Sky (shared with Pontiac and Opel) and the Saturn Vue (similar to Chevy Equinox and other models). However, for the last few years before it was closed down, Saturns were basically just rebadged Opels. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/48 "2013-10-23T14:46:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That’s not the way I remember it. Saturn was always marketed as a GM brand, not an independent. It was equivalent to a Chevy or Olds or any other brand. Your memory is a bit off. Saturn was absolutely marketed as “A Different Kind of Car Company”, with minimal reference to GM. The cars they first produced shared almost nothing major with other GM models and that was a selling point. The dealerships were independent and never carried other GM brands. They sold cars differently and made them differently in a plant built just for them. By the time the second generation of cars came along they were rebadged Opels. ETA - Curse you, \*\*lawroot \*\*and **RwS**! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/49 "2013-10-23T15:10:59Z")
OK, I suppose that people who were totally oblivious to the years of publicity leading up to and following Saturn’s launch and never read a single article about Saturn at any time might have thought it wasn’t a GM brand. If you paid even the slightest amount of attention to a single piece of news coverage in any medium you wouldn’t think this for a second. You can pick which group you were in. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/50 "2013-10-23T15:12:49Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > There is no Infinity either. And Lexus only became available in 2003. Toyota had, and still has, a luxury series for their domestic market – the Crown. Nissan has the Fuga and Honda, the Legend to cover the upscale market here. They do already sell the QX56 (Infinity version of Nissan Armada) in Japan are going to start selling more of the Infinity brand in Japan soon. The only reason they didn’t do it before is because the Nissan’s that they make and sell in Japan would be considered Infinity level cars here. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/51 "2013-10-23T16:35:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > OK, I suppose that people who were totally oblivious to the years of publicity leading up to and following Saturn’s launch and never read a single article about Saturn at any time might have thought it wasn’t a GM brand. There’s a difference between “marketing Saturn as a GM brand” (which they didn’t do, IIRC) and “trying to obfuscate the fact that GM owned Saturn” (which they obviously didn’t do). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/52 "2013-10-23T18:40:40Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > There’s a difference between “marketing Saturn as a GM brand” (which they didn’t do, IIRC) and “trying to obfuscate the fact that GM owned Saturn” (which they obviously didn’t do). Exactly, they took great pains to disassociate the Saturn brand with any other GM product or infrastructure. Yes, anyone who followed cars knew it was a GM brand, but it was clearly differentiated from the GM family. I encountered many people who didn’t know that Saturn was by GM (I owned an SW2 for 7 years). ---
**Author:** ![Running\_with\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Running\_with\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Running_with_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/53 "2013-10-23T19:27:44Z")
Do any GM brands (with the exception of GMC) actually market themselves as such? I mean, they don’t specifically deny it, but I don’t think they go out of their way to mention it, either. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/54 "2013-10-23T20:15:51Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Also, Chrysler markets cars under the Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep brands, though they got bought out by Fiat and so might no longer be considered truly American cars. I think Dodge was supposed to be a little more upscale than Chrysler-badged cars. IIRC, Jeep is what remains of the AMC brand name when Chrysler bought them out. I think you have it backwards. Chrysler is more upscale than Dodge. Dodge is more comparable to Chevy or Ford, while Chrysler is more comparable to Cadillac or Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/55 "2013-10-23T20:37:09Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I think you have it backwards. Chrysler is more upscale than Dodge. Dodge is more comparable to Chevy or Ford, while Chrysler is more comparable to Cadillac or Lincoln. I wouldn’t say this is true. Chrysler was the top brand of the Chrysler company back in the day, but in the 50s they introduced the Imperial brand as their luxury marque and Chrysler became the “number two” more akin to Buick today than to Cadillac. It mostly remained that even after Chrysler dropped Imperial in the 70s/80s, because I know by that point Chrysler was not selling cars under the Chrysler brand that were really positioned against Lincoln/Cadillac. I think Chrysler has always gone for some level of premium, in that you didn’t say the true entry-level vehicles branded as Chrysler, but for most of my adult life they’ve been a midlevel type brand in terms of price–not as expensive as a Cadillac or Lincoln. Right now Chrysler branded vehicles start out in the low $20,000s, a little bit cheaper than the cheapest Buicks. The cheapest Cadillac starts around $33k. I wouldn’t even really say Chrysler has a luxury “brand.” Instead they market both fairly mass market cars like the Chrysler 200 (starting around $20k), and the Chrysler 300 (marketed more as a luxury vehicle) under the same marque. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/56 "2013-10-23T20:39:25Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Exactly, they took great pains to disassociate the Saturn brand with any other GM product or infrastructure. Yes, anyone who followed cars knew it was a GM brand, but it was clearly differentiated from the GM family. I encountered many people who didn’t know that Saturn was by GM (I owned an SW2 for 7 years). Thanks to you and the others who reported this for confirming my opinion about the American people. I think it also explains why they vote the way they do. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/57 "2013-12-13T21:44:32Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > They do already sell the QX56 (Infinity version of Nissan Armada) in Japan The Infiniti QX56, now QX80 starting in 2014, has not been based off of the Armada since 2011, when they drastically changed the body-style. Since 2011, the large size Infiniti SUV has been based off of the Nissan Patrol, which is manufactured in Japan and currently only sold in Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the Middle East and Africa. The Nissan Armada is made in Mississippi. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897/58 "2013-12-13T22:05:45Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The Infiniti QX56, now QX80 starting in 2014, has not been based off of the Armada since 2011, when they drastically changed the body-style. Since 2011, the large size Infiniti SUV has been based off of the Nissan Patrol, which is manufactured in Japan and currently only sold in Australia, New Zealand, Japan, the Middle East and Africa. The Nissan Armada is made in Mississippi. I knew that, but you miss my point. They are selling the Infiniti brand in Japan now. They did not before, only Nissan branded vehicles were sold in Japan before. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-equivalents-to-lexus-acura-infiniti/671897.md?page=2)