# American Exceptionalism: Fair and Balanced. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2015, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420 "2015-04-24T05:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/81 "2015-04-28T19:35:34Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well, few countries have as good a reason to feel as special as Israel. Not only is this not true, it is an insult to all non Israelis who have a deep, abiding love of their country. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The Jews are God’s Chosen People, whether you take that script as fact or fiction. It is fiction. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > You just can’t take that away from the Jews, As the assertion is not true, there is nothing to take away. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > though it has earned them plenty of animus over the years. You really believe that the nonsense of ‘the chosen people’ is what has earned Jewish people animus over the years? Really? It couldn’t be anything empiric, such as having an ingrained philosophy of achievement and success that other cultures that have become lazy and entitled are so threatened by it that they lash out and try to destroy the Jews rather than improve themselves? > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > that A nation of God’s Chosen People? Exceptional! I’m not being ironic. Well, you’re trying not to be. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Look at the shit Israel has gone through and come out on top. Not the typical “humans form society, society descends into chaos” scenario you see so often. This has less to do with Israel than it does the focused mindset of Jewish people, wherever they are, throughout the world. Let’s not get started on the crap Israel has gone through, much of which of late has occurred as a result of acts committed by the government, in the name of, but not the behest of, the people. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Americans may not be God’s Chosen People, They’re not. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > but there has been a fair bit of religious fervor/inspiration going on. A _fair bit_ of religious fervor? A _fair bit_? Quite the understatement, I’d say. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The Manifest Destiny is my cite. I view this as a sort of common experienced miracle to the people of the time. I think when religious conservatives want to go back to a time in America’s history, it is this mood they want to recreate. The American miracle was palpable at that moment. There _was_ a destiny for America, and it was being realized in the present! American exceptionalism, as expressed by today’s movement conservatives in America is composed of so much jingoism it makes my teeth hurt, and has more to do with a whitewash of the mechanisms employed throughout its short history to get America to what it is today than any of the honor spun from whole cloth its proponents espouse. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > But we’re talking 1789- 1867 or so. Pretty old history. But the railroads got built here first, on a grand scale, and that set the stage economically for America’s advancement and enhancement. This is, I think, the trend that crescendoed at the climax of WWII, a move that put America in the highest catbird seat there ever has been, if you wanna look at it in those terms. And here is where I, unfortunately, veer from the topic. I don’t mean to call you out specifically for this, **Try2B** , as I have seen this usage for years by many on this very board. You just happened to be the poster who used this word incorrectly on the day I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. The word is ‘crescendo’. Crescendo is a rising, or building, or increasing intensity of a thing. It is not the achievement or the apex of a thing. One does not reach a crescendo, for goodness sake! Please make a note of this. Back to our regularly scheduled rant. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > America could get knocked out of that catbird seat, but so far it hasn’t happened. So there is an argument for American exceptionalism. The United States of America has been in existence for just 239 years. Touting the “so far” as though it has existed for millennia is a bit premature, no? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/82 "2015-04-28T20:03:17Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Well, there is the fact that the US isn’t merely exceptional right now in a variety of categories but is actually the best the world has ever seen—the most influential economically, politically, culturally, and militarily. If that isn’t exceptional, I don’t know what is. But is it the best **place to live?** There are many quality-of-life measures on which other, less powerful countries have us beat. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/83 "2015-04-28T22:10:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But is it the best **place to live?** … Yes, I believe America is the best place to live…for the greatest variety of people, with their varying tastes, talents and temperaments. Want to be a coal miner in the mountains? We can accommodate you. Want to be a ballerina in the desert? We can accommodate you. Want to be a long-line or crab or shrimp fisherman in one of two oceans? We can accommodate you. Want to grow soybeans on the prairie? We can accommodate you. Want to sit around spending your day posting to internet message boards with your thumb up your ass? We can accommodate you, too. We really are Earth’s human melting pot. There has never been as varied and complicated a nation like us in the past, and there won’t be in the future (I bet my hat on that). We’re unique. It dismays me to think we may have already jumped the shark, but post-WWII America was on fire and globally envied—deny it all you want, but we were. (if you haven’t already done so, click the [second link](http://www.vice.com/read/raggare-love-hot-rods-and-rock-n-roll-000926-v20n2) I posted in my last post)—that just blows me away…it should you, too. Nordic country youth and middle-aged men still fetishizing half-century old 50’s Americana???—what other nation even comes close to that level of idolatry? Long-dead Elvis Presley, of all people, is still the King of the World! I’ll bet most people around the world are more familiar with Elvis and Marilyn Monroe and a host of other American icons than they are with their own country’s stars. And they’ve been dead for decades. Many contemporary Americans don’t deserve the gift we’ve been given—we were blessed with exceptionally prescient and gifted nation-building forefathers who got the ball rolling, followed by a succession of gung-ho, can-do generations. I see signs of slippage in recent years, and that’s a shame. Our future is hazy. Certainly we have much to be ashamed of (our treatment of black people being at the forefront), but what adolescent nation doesn’t? We do, however, appear to learn from most of our mistakes and attempt to build a better society for all. We’re good and evil—mostly good. But, I do commend all the foreign posters who’ve resisted the urge to call America, the most _exceptionally_ fat nation in the world (a charge I deny, BTW…and I’ll explain if anyone’s interested). ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/84 "2015-04-28T23:10:19Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > Certainly we have much to be ashamed of (our treatment of black people being at the forefront), but what adolescent nation doesn’t? We do, however, appear to learn from most of our mistakes and attempt to build a better society for all. We’re good and evil—mostly good. That the issues of Gay marriage and equal rights for the LGBTQ community have even to be contemplated by SCOTUS appears to prove the very lack of America’s ability to learn from its mistakes if you ask me. America pats itself on the back for every minor concession it gives one group, crowing about its magnanimity, while continuing to hold its boot on the throats of other groups. America the expedient. Is it not merciful? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/85 "2015-04-29T01:10:53Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > That the issues of Gay marriage and equal rights for the LGBTQ community have even to be contemplated by SCOTUS appears to prove the very lack of America’s ability to learn from its mistakes if you ask me… The debate is about [exceptionalism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism), not about being most nice, or even most socially enlightened. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/86 "2015-04-29T07:50:33Z")
USA is big. Meh. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/87 "2015-04-29T08:33:08Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Not only is this not true, it is an insult to all non Israelis who have a deep, abiding love of their country. Believe it or not, that was my original point - that “exceptionalism” wasn’t limited to Americans, or to Israelis for that matter. All nations feel it to one degree or another. And I don’t thing that’s a bad thing. You need pride in your country in order to make it better; if you go around thinking, "“Meh, we’re nothing special”, then that’s all you’ll be. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/88 "2015-04-29T12:34:15Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You Americans think you’re so special - I’ll have you know that \*every \*country has its own version of “exceptionalism”. Everyone believes, to one degree or another, that the same rules that apply to the rest of the world, don’t apply _here_. It’s just the way people are. But American exceptionalism is — exceptional! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/89 "2015-04-29T13:25:03Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > The debate is about [exceptionalism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism), not about being most nice, or even most socially enlightened. And the point I addressed in your post was about learning from mistakes. I guess being dragged kicking and screaming to doing the right thing time and time again is exceptional. Doesn’t say much about learning from mistakes, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/90 "2015-04-29T13:46:49Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > And the point I addressed in your post was about learning from mistakes. > > I guess being dragged kicking and screaming to doing the right thing time and time again is exceptional. Doesn’t say much about learning from mistakes, though. To be accurate I posted \*“We do, however, appear to learn from **most** of our mistakes and attempt to build a better society for all.” \*I never claimed all of them. And most of the important issues that we do lag on usually get done in a righteous way, eventually. Politics creates a lot of bottleneck jams. And, what country are you from?—Japan from the look of your sig. Has your country learned from all of its mistakes in a timely fashion? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/91 "2015-04-29T14:16:43Z")
The notion that America isn’t the global bellwether is frankly absurd. L.A./Hollywood generates the pop-culture and idols the world devours. NYC’s, Madison Avenue spews out the logos and catch phrases the world plasters on its T-shirts. When Wall Street speaks, the world’s financial institutions shut up and listen. In D.C., when the Department of Defense gets its feathers ruffled, the world cowers. America doesn’t simply influence the world; it’s got it bitch-slapped. Love it or leave it, you can’t ignore it. And, furthermore!..😃 (some tongue in cheek follows): Unlike empires of days gone by, America actually encourages our tiny friend countries to spread their wings and bask in some of the glory we could just as easily reap all for ourselves—they’re like our not-too athletic, kinda slow-witted little brothers and sisters. _C’mon UN, fly some of your airplanes behind ours and help us bomb that bad country…but, be careful you push the right buttons on the bomb shoot and be careful not to fly into any mountains._ In 1957 the Soviets launched a dog named Laika (the first muttnik) into orbit. Problem was, they didn’t bring her back home again ([Laika Come Home](http://d.gr-assets.com/books/1316130656l/895886.jpg)…NYET!). America said, screw that, that’s not very nice, and we started shooting our own critters into space—but, we brought them back home again, including the homo sapiens! After landing men on the moon, golf carts on Mars and anal probes deep into space, we said, enough already, time for some of our tiny friend countries to spend a little cash and take some credit. So, we sat back and let a bunch of countries band together and form the European Space Agency. NASA taught them how to screw on their space helmets and ignite their rockets. When the ESA shot their first rocket into space, we thought that was darned cute. We applauded when they embarked on the Rosetta Mission and patted them on the back when they made contact with the comet…and we did not make fun when, after the 10 year journey, they accidentally landed the probe in a hole. Music? Don’t make me laugh. America has dominated the world of music for over a century with jazz, blues, country, bluegrass, rhythm and blues, ragtime, hip hop, barbershop, pop, techno, house, dance, boogaloo, salsa, and rock and roll. No contest; no other contenders. Oh, sure, Europe gave it a shot with Polka and the Swiss with their Yodeling—but those genres don’t exactly fill large stadiums. Don’t get me wrong, Europe does indeed occasionally output some awe-inspiring music, like this chart-topping [fine performance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1oe1Fnz8eA) demonstrates. The British Invasion was an anomaly (genius collaborations like Lennon & McCartney don’t come around too often). But, remember, the British Invasion was what it was because of America. We were getting tired of the crooners and beach music, and Elvis went off in the army, and Bob Dylan went electric and Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin. And so we flew four mop-headed Liverpudlians over and put them on the Ed Sullivan Show. America embraced them (and the Limey bands who followed) with open arms and propelled the genre into the stratosphere of popularity. But, recall that rock legends like John Lennon credited his musical roots with American R&R and [Skiffle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skiffle); others, like Keith Richards credit American R&B (and we do give credit for blues African roots). If not for the Beatles, American artists like Little Richard and the Beach Boys would have remained at the top of the charts and their music would have continued to evolve and mature (like with Brian Wilson’s Pet Sounds, the Beach Boys admirable answer to Sgt. Pepper). A handful of European countries dominated Western Music in the 18th and 19th centuries ([Franz Liszt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisztomania_%28phenomenon%29) was arguably the first Elvis Presley). But, America owns the 20th and 21st. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/92 "2015-04-29T14:57:01Z")
There certainly is, I must admit, a special kind of exceptionalism required for “allowing” other nations to do their own thing and then taking credit for not doing it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/93 "2015-04-29T15:02:06Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > To be accurate I posted \*“We do, however, appear to learn from **most** of our mistakes and attempt to build a better society for all.” \*I never claimed all of them. And most of the important issues that we do lag on usually get done in a righteous way, eventually. Politics creates a lot of bottleneck jams. I understand this thread is about American exceptionalism _(barf)_, and this is definitely a sidetrack, for which I apologize, but I dispute that America usually gets things “done in a righteous way.” America’s default position is to discriminate or harm until the right thing is rammed down its throat, and even then its troglodyte contingent on the Right, with its out-sized influence on government matters, mucks up and slows down progress. It made me ill yesterday hearing Justice Kennedy say that the Supreme Court may be moving too quickly on marriage equality. this was one of the arguments in support of anti-miscegenation laws in the late 1960s, for heaven’s sake! Also, don’t think for one minute that its treatment of LGBTQs is the only issue that discounts any claim America has to exceptionalism. Torturing and detaining people in substandard conditions who have not been proven to have committed any crime, without charge or due process of law, for years, most of whom are probably innocent, is nothing less than immoral, and makes America no better than any other country’s government that commits similar atrocities that the American government hypocritically labels as “criminal acts”, to name just one other in a litany of issues that has marred and continues to mar the sheen in the armor of righteousness America tries to portray to the world. For every claim of American exceptionalism there is a corresponding proof of willful duplicity and wrongdoing that either achieved, coincided with, or preceded it. If this doesn’t bother you then, fine, America is exceptional. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/94 "2015-04-29T18:02:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You need pride in your country in order to make it better; if you go around thinking, "“Meh, we’re nothing special”, then that’s all you’ll be. … is one of the stupidest things I have read on this forum for a while. Congratulations. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/95 "2015-04-29T20:28:32Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > . . . And I don’t thing that’s a bad thing. You need pride in your country in order to make it better; if you go around thinking, "“Meh, we’re nothing special”, then that’s all you’ll be. > [@amanset](#): > > … is one of the stupidest things I have read on this forum for a while. Congratulations. Why? It sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Even if it’s wrong (and why would it be wrong?) it isn’t stupid. As far as I can tell, this is one of the least cogent rebuttals I’ve ever read on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![parkona\_driveway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@parkona\_driveway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parkona_driveway)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/96 "2015-04-29T23:13:17Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > And most of the important issues that we do lag on usually get done in a righteous way, eventually. Let me just fix that for you: > [@](#): > > And most of the important issues that we do lag on usually get done in a \*\*self-\*\*righteous way, eventually. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/97 "2015-04-29T23:56:58Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I understand this thread is about American exceptionalism _(barf)_, and this is definitely a sidetrack, for which I apologize, but I dispute that America usually gets things “done in a righteous way.” America’s default position is to discriminate or harm until the right thing is rammed down its throat, and even then its troglodyte contingent on the Right, with its out-sized influence on government matters, mucks up and slows down progress. > > It made me ill yesterday hearing Justice Kennedy say that the Supreme Court may be moving too quickly on marriage equality. this was one of the arguments in support of anti-miscegenation laws in the late 1960s, for heaven’s sake! > > Also, don’t think for one minute that its treatment of LGBTQs is the only issue that discounts any claim America has to exceptionalism. Torturing and detaining people in substandard conditions who have not been proven to have committed any crime, without charge or due process of law, for years, most of whom are probably innocent, is nothing less than immoral, and makes America no better than any other country’s government that commits similar atrocities that the American government hypocritically labels as “criminal acts”, to name just one other in a litany of issues that has marred and continues to mar the sheen in the armor of righteousness America tries to portray to the world. > > For every claim of American exceptionalism there is a corresponding proof of willful duplicity and wrongdoing that either achieved, coincided with, or preceded it. If this doesn’t bother you then, fine, America is exceptional. Fair enough. You’re starting to convince me. Let me just mull over your ideas in my head while I finish my Big Mac®, chased with a Coca Cola®, then get in my Ford F-150® and listen to cool Jazz® on my Apple IPod® and get home before my favorite show, American Idol® starts. Hey, **O** , here’s an idea! Why don’t you join me at my home and we can debate this topic in person?? Just exit Route 66 at exit 1776, (just beyond the ASPCA headquarters), then drive 10 miles till you reach the NAACP building, take a left, then drive 5 miles till you get to the gay bathhouse (pink building, on the right), then turn right and drive 3 miles to the Yogurt shop owned by those three women. My house is catty-corner to them. Let’s then debate the issue of American exceptionalism. Afterwards we can watch a movie! What would you like to watch? American Graffiti? American Beauty? American Pie? American History X? American Splendor? An American Werewolf in London? American Pop? American Psycho?..you name it; I’ll stream it, from Amazon® video. I’m not making a value judgment, just stating what should be an obvious fact—America dominates the world in most things people care about. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/98 "2015-04-30T00:57:32Z")
[Obligatory _The Newsroom_ clip.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjMqda19wk) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/99 "2015-04-30T01:05:03Z")
[_The Newsroom:_](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Newsroom_%28U.S._TV_series%29) > [@](#): > > **Will:** And yeah, you, sorority girl. Just in case you accidentally wander into a voting booth one day, there’s some things you should know, and one of them is, there’s absolutely no evidence to support the statement that we’re the greatest country in the world. We’re 7th in literacy, 27th in math, 22nd in science, 49th in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, 3rd in median household income, number 4 in labor force, and number 4 in exports. We lead the world in only 3 categories: number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending, where we spend more than the next 26 countries combined. 25 of whom are allies. Now, none of this is the fault of a 20 year old college student. But you, nonetheless, are without a doubt a member of the worst. generation. ever. So when you ask, “what makes us the greatest country in the world?” I dunno know what the fuck you’re talking about. Yosemite? [Pause] We sure used to be. We stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reasons. We passed laws, struck down laws for moral reasons. We waged wars on poverty, not poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors. We put our money where our mouths were. And we never beat our chest. We built great big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases, and we cultivated the world’s greatest artists and the world’s greatest economy. We reached for the stars, acted like men. We aspired to intelligence, we didn’t belittle it, it didn’t make us feel inferior. We didn’t identify ourselves by who we voted for in our last election. And we didn’t… we didn’t scare so easy. We were able to be all these things, and to do all these things, because we were informed. By great men, men who were revered. First step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one. America is not the greatest country in the world anymore. [Pause, then to the moderator] Enough? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420/100 "2015-04-30T02:47:21Z")
There are things that will affect America just as much as any other nation. Let’s say that national debt reaches 300 percent of GDP. In that case, the United States would be in dire straits, just like anyone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism-fair-and-balanced/718420.md?page=6)