# American Exceptionalism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853 "2016-07-01T05:56:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/1 "2016-07-01T05:56:05Z")
On July 4, 240 years ago, a nation was founded. Some people believe America is an exceptional nation, some don’t. What’s your take? I think America is the hope of the Earth, the city on the hill, and the gem of the world. Why? Because not only were we the first modern representative democracy, but American inventions have accounted for the bulk of industrial advancement for the last 240 years, America freed the world from fascism, communism, and will do so from Islamism. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/2 "2016-07-01T05:58:20Z")
America is headed the way of the Roman Empire. Give it 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/3 "2016-07-01T06:02:30Z")
America may be “exceptional” in the sense that it is a superpower and is more Judeo-Christian than most other countries, but it is not “exceptional” in the sense that it is not immune to debt, decay, apathy or other internal rot. To use an analogy, a superstar athlete can be killed by cancer. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/4 "2016-07-01T06:29:23Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > On July 4, 240 years ago, a nation was founded. > > Some people believe America is an exceptional nation, some don’t. What’s your take? > > I think America is the hope of the Earth, the city on the hill, and the gem of the world. Why? Because **not only were we the first modern representative democracy** , but American inventions have accounted for the bulk of industrial advancement for the last 240 years, America freed the world from fascism, communism, and will do so from Islamism. You sure about that? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/5 "2016-07-01T06:37:42Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > On July 4, 240 years ago, a nation was founded. > > Some people believe America is an exceptional nation, some don’t. What’s your take? > > I think America is the hope of the Earth, the city on the hill, and the gem of the world. Why? Because not only were we the first modern representative democracy, but American inventions have accounted for the bulk of industrial advancement for the last 240 years, America freed the world from fascism, communism, and will do so from Islamism. Yeah, we’re the leading edge of liberal democracy. A cautionary tale. I for one hope that other nations look at us closely enough to get off this path and, chastened, embrace despotism again. :rolleyes: More seriously, how much do you have to twist history in knots to make the USA as awesome as Americans think it is? Iceland has had democratic institutions longer. Our independence movement borrowed from Netherlands models. The French Revolution was far more radical. The UK banned slavery well before we did. Germany was the major science leader before militarism led them to ruin. The USA still uses a strong presidency, mad enough, but then tries to hobble it to make its vaunted government system _actually dysfunctional._ ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/6 "2016-07-01T06:41:11Z")
I think the U.S., both collectively and many individuals in it, have accomplished many extraordinary things, sometimes alone, sometimes with help. I don’t think everything we do is wonderful just because we’re the ones doing it. And a lot of other countries have done remarkable things, and I expect their citizens to be proud of their countries, too. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I think America is the hope of the Earth, the city on the hill, and the gem of the world. Why? Because not only were we the first modern representative democracy,… At this late date, what does it matter who was first? In fact, I find the American tendency to rest on our laurels to be a negative quality. The rest of the world is not going to kowtow to us because we invented something; they’re going to copy it, reverse engineer it, and try to improve on it faster than we can. The Wright Brothers created the first successful airplane (yay, America!). They built 120 airplanes by 1915, and none since. We invented representative democracy? That and three bucks will get you a cup of coffee. You want to bask in 200+ year old glories? Help yourself. But don’t do it in the middle of the road or you’ll get run over. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/7 "2016-07-01T06:47:19Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Some people believe America is an exceptional nation, some don’t. What’s your take? > > I think America is the hope of the Earth, the city on the hill, and the gem of the world. That tune went off-key once you shot JFK. What have you got since apart from sitcoms, botox, Levis and Ben & Jerrys? > [@](#): > > America freed the world from fascism, communism. The primary US contribution to that victory was financial, not moral. > [@](#): > > and will do so from Islamism. by opposing it with Judeo-Christian fundamentalism until the demographics turn the Lower 48 Hispanic. The US’s primacy won’t last to the end of the New American Century. However what remains at the end of that period might be a much better and inspiring product. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/8 "2016-07-01T06:50:18Z")
I’m not so sure about American inventions accounting for “the bulk of industrial advancement for the last 240 years”. For the first part of that period Britain was undoubtedly a greater engine of innovation than the US, and much of the world’s - and, indeed, the US’s - industrial advancement must be attributed to British developments such as the steam engine (Watt), the railway (Stephenson), the electrical generator (Faraday) and the programmable computer (Turing). Nor am I so convinced that the US “saved the world from fascism and communism”. If we’re honest, the forces of communism had a fair bit to do with the defeat of fascism, and whether communism was in turn defeated by the US or simply gave way to its own contradictions is at least debatable. As for the US saving the world from Islamism, so far it seems that their efforts have done more to promote and invigorate Islamism than to suppress it. Just sayin’. But I’m not sure that all this is relevant. The US is undoubtedly a great, prosperous and powerful nation, but it is “exceptional”? A nation which is the biggest, the wealthiest, the most innovative (or, for that matter the smallest, the poorest, the most traditional) is not “exceptional”. It’s just towards one end of the scale of whatever quality you are measuring, but there’s nothing “exceptional” about that. _Some_ nation has to be at the end of the scale, and why should it not be the US? The US isn’t “exceptional” unless it’s an exception to something; some statement that you can make about nations that’s generally true, but that isn’t true of the US. So if somebody claims that the US is exceptional, the obvious question is “what’s it an exception _from_?” And be careful how you answer. Being an exception to the rule isn’t necessarily a good thing. Nazi Germany was an exceptional nation in explicitly repudiating the rule of law, but I doubt if anybody boasts about that now. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/9 "2016-07-01T06:53:19Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > That tune went off-key once you shot JFK. > What have you got since apart from sitcoms, botox, Levis and Ben & Jerrys? Well, we put a man on the moon (a bunch of 'em, too) in '69. I consider that to be one of the greatest achievements in human history, right up there with Ben & Jerry’s. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/10 "2016-07-01T07:05:30Z")
[Wiki on Elon Musk and America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk).: > [@](#): > > Musk is a self-described American exceptionalist and nationalist, describing himself as “nauseatingly pro-American”. According to Musk, the United States is “[inarguably] the greatest country that has ever existed on Earth”, describing it as “the greatest force for good of any country that’s ever been”. Musk believes outright that there “would not be democracy in the world if not for the United States”, arguing there were “three separate occasions in the 20th-century where democracy would have fallen with World War I, World War II and the Cold War, if not for the United States”. Couldn’t agree more. Quite apart from our exceptional technological, economical and entrepreneurial contributions to the world, most of its citizens would have been “Sieg, Heil”-ing each other or calling each other Comrade and fearing knocks on the door in the middle of the night decades ago if not for the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Cugel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cugel/32/1199_2.png) [@Cugel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cugel)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/11 "2016-07-01T08:31:54Z")
And also the highest incidence of self-inflicted back-patting injuries. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/12 "2016-07-01T08:40:58Z")
Elon Musk is easily the coolest South African ever. He has been a significant part of America being “the greatest country that has ever existed on Earth” for at least the last decade. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/13 "2016-07-01T08:42:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Wiki on Elon Musk and America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk).: > > Couldn’t agree more. Quite apart from our exceptional technological, economical and entrepreneurial contributions to the world, most of its citizens would have been “Sieg, Heil”-ing each other or calling each other Comrade and fearing knocks on the door in the middle of the night decades ago if not for the U.S. I totally agree. But what has made “our exceptional technological, economical and entrepreneurial contributions to the world” possible has been the government’s relative hands-off approach to the economy, freeing businesspeople to innovate with minimal restraints. In that sense we’re exceptional. However, regarding Elon Musk, he didn’t get where he is today without a great deal of help from the government, i.e. us, the taxpayers. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/14 "2016-07-01T09:22:59Z")
I can’t remember who said it, but I once heard a quote that went something like, “saying ‘the USA is the greatest country on earth’ is like saying ‘my mom is the best mom in the world.’” ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/15 "2016-07-01T10:03:48Z")
Every nation is exceptional. I happen to be very fond of the USA but there are amazing people everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/16 "2016-07-01T10:34:34Z")
It’s not about the people, it’s about the system and the culture. We have a system that is better for preserving individual liberties than any other system, and we have a culture that is more welcoming to immigration than any other. There are a lot of people who want to change those things about us, to make us just like other nations. If they succeed, then we won’t be exceptional anymore. It’s a constant fight to maintain what makes us great, because people always want their government to do more, to restrict more. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/17 "2016-07-01T10:48:33Z")
Yes, the US is exceptional. We spend more on our military than the rest of the world combined, and yet gain no greater security than any other developed nation. We spend twice as much per capita on health care, with no better results. We still haven’t managed to recover from the self-inflicted wounds of virulent racism, and our people live in constant fear of losing everything. If we can’t figure out how to cure American exceptionalism, we’re doomed. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/18 "2016-07-01T11:44:57Z")
You have to admit in terms of natural resources and geography the USA is the best. We have almost all the major minerals like gold, iron, lead, uranium, etc… we’ve got timber, we have great farmland, we have nearly every ecosystem from deserts to plains to arctic tundra, we have a great river system that allows access to the interior of the country, we have great natural ports ice free year around. So in that category yes the USA is blessed. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/19 "2016-07-01T11:47:11Z")
So is Brazil and Russia, while Japan is resource poor. It’s not what you have, it’s what you do with it. Human capital is still by far the most valuable resource of all, and no country is richer in human capital than the US. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2016, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/20 "2016-07-01T11:56:26Z")
Exceptional? Americans are people just the same as people all over this planet. Americans are people from all over this planet. That’s something. Exceptional? Seems just a tad arrogant. Exceptionally arrogant? Now you might be on to something. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853.md?page=2)