# American Exceptionalism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853 "2016-07-01T05:56:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/221 "2016-07-06T13:34:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So yet again I have to reiterate that I was talking about a scenario in which the U.S. either didn’t exist or made clear that it wouldn’t take any steps to interfere in whatever was going on in Europe. I don’t care what imaginary scenario you’ve got going on in your head. Here was your claim: > [@](#): > > Had it not been for U.S. protectionism, Sweden would have been subsumed by Germany or the Soviet Union long ago. Let’s tackle the German part first; that is absolutely bat-shit ridiculous. The only time in living history Germany had the capability or was even remotely likely to want to “subsume” Sweden was during the Third Reich. The United States did not protect Sweden during the Second World War, period, end of story. If you will kindly consult a map of occupied Europe during 1941-1942, which you can find in four seconds of searching, you will note Sweden is rather unoccupied, unlike their neighbours, Norway, to the immediate west. If you can provide some sort of logical explanation as to how the United States, which until December 7, 1941 took no action to protect countries from invasion in Europe, somehow protected Sweden’s neutrality, I would be fascinated to hear it. Please, do explain. > [@](#): > > It’s specious to make claims based upon things as they actually happened in the war and its aftermath because without U.S. participation everything about the war and its subsequent events would have turned out entirely differently. So your claims were specious? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/222 "2016-07-06T17:04:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you can provide some sort of logical explanation as to how the United States, which until December 7, 1941 took no action to protect countries from invasion in Europe, somehow protected Sweden’s neutrality, I would be fascinated to hear it. Please, do explain. Good points, **RickJay**. It was only after Pearl Harbor and after Germany had declared war on the US that the US entered the war in Europe (technically on December 11, 1941). Until then, “American exceptionalism” had more or less taken the form of isolationism and the belief that Britain and France, which had been fighting for their lives for more than two years, since September 1939, should just take care of themselves. Canada, Australia, and many other allies joined the war effort within days, but though the US did provide equipment and supplies under the Lend Lease Act it was officially neutral for more than two years. In fact the US spent most of the 1930s in tacit approval of Hitler. William Dodd, the US ambassador to Germany until 1937, was initially also approving of the Third Reich, with his daughter even allegedly having an affair with the head of the Gestapo, and when he changed his views and started warning about the perils of Hitler’s ambitions, he was largely ignored. It was only when US interests were directly threatened that it got involved in the war effort. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/223 "2016-07-06T17:24:23Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I disagree. > > In WW2 the Soviets could have taken Helsinki and Finland would have become just another Lituania like Soviet provience if they had wanted to but the thing was that the bSoviets had their hands full just fighting the Germans and once they pushed them back they went head on against the Finns and the Finns were could not hold them so much that they were forced into a peace treaty which they had to give up some of the best territory. Luckily it could have gone much worse but the Soviets wanted to concentrate on Germany. The Soviets were not at war with Germany during the Winter War. And yes, the Finns had to give some territory - but another way to look at it is that the Soviets didn’t take \*all of it \*even though they had a 40 to 1 advantage in the air, 4 to 1 on the ground and 6,000 more tanks. Despite those ridiculous odds, the casualties were 1-to-5 in the Finns’ favour. You don’t. Fuck. With the Finns. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/224 "2016-07-06T17:54:11Z")
['Murica!](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/05/us-army-veteran-shoots-through-rope-to-free-bald-eagle-hanging-from-tree) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/225 "2016-07-08T17:16:25Z")
Exceptional indeed. Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/226 "2016-07-08T17:30:41Z")
The USA is not exceptional. Sure you have some excellent , even world-leading features but you are on the same continuum and are subject to the same sociopoliticeconomic physics as everyone else. Also the chomskyite self flagellating types are irrational exceptionalists as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/227 "2016-07-08T18:39:44Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > ['Murica!](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/05/us-army-veteran-shoots-through-rope-to-free-bald-eagle-hanging-from-tree) So that eagle hanged for two days before getting shot at _150 times_ ? Yeah, he ain’t gon’ be all right 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853.md?page=11)