# American Exceptionalism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853 "2016-07-01T05:56:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/101 "2016-07-02T14:17:43Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > When Europe was in tatters and Russia stood there cold and shivering like a 15-year-old Berlinese girl hiding from the Soviet invaders what did we do? > > We let everyone go their own ways and rebuild. > > Exceptional. A act of unprecedented moral restraint. > > It’s shameful and sad to see how liberals hate their own country. What the US did post WW2 was good but not exactly unselfish. And it happened some seventy years ago. It is not much of an argument for the claim that the US \*is \*(not _was_) “the hope of the Earth, the city on the hill, and the gem of the world”. I think all things considered the US is a pretty decent country - not less, but not more either. When trying to present hard evidence that the US actually surpasses all other nations in any department that matters, you usually come up short. **Half Man Half Wit** ’s post illustrates that quite nicely. As for loving your country: I believe it is quite possible to love your country without having to claim that it is better than all of the others. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/102 "2016-07-02T14:29:54Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > When Europe was in tatters and Russia stood there cold and shivering like a 15-year-old Berlinese girl hiding from the Soviet invaders what did we do? > > We let everyone go their own ways and rebuild. > > Exceptional. A act of unprecedented moral restraint. > > It’s shameful and sad to see how liberals hate their own country. It’s not about hate, it’s simply about seeing the US in a realistic light, including its flaws. Nobody disputes that the US have done lots of good around the world, and that its citizens enjoy a comparatively high standard of living; but there have been times when its actions on the theatre of world politics were absolutely disastrous, and there are systematic flaws preventing a greater amount of life satisfaction and happiness within its populace. Simply pointing this out is not ‘hating America’—in fact, the dichotomy where everybody who doesn’t buy into exceptionalism is automatically anti-American is a major hindrance to any sort of reasoned debate on the subject. The fable of American Exceptionalism is, ironically, one of the reasons America falls short of fulfilling its great potential. Simply admitting that, like all other countries, there are bad aspects as well as good ones might do wonders in formulating a consolidated effort to further develop what’s good about it, while allowing to address the bad. But as long as everybody who tries to point out the US’s flaws is shouted down amidst poorly substantiated claims regarding how America is the Greatest Nation in History, I fear those flaws will only deepen. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/103 "2016-07-02T14:48:30Z")
I too love America, but I’ve noticed that conservatives are forever bragging about freedom of expression, but then they often become unbelievably angry when someone dares to exercises it. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/104 "2016-07-02T14:56:26Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > When Europe was in tatters and Russia stood there cold and shivering like a 15-year-old Berlinese girl hiding from the Soviet invaders what did we do? > > We let everyone go their own ways and rebuild. > > Exceptional. A act of unprecedented moral restraint. > > It’s shameful and sad to see how liberals hate their own country. We don’t hate it. We are just willing to admit that it isn’t perfect and want to improve it. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/105 "2016-07-02T15:28:00Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > When Europe was in tatters and Russia stood there cold and shivering like a 15-year-old Berlinese girl hiding from the Soviet invaders what did we do? > > We let everyone go their own ways and rebuild. Well \*somebody \*forgot all about Korea. Also Albania, China, Greece, Guatemala, Iran, Laos and France - all of which saw substantial open or covert US interference between 45 and 55. To say nothing of Germany and Japan of course. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/106 "2016-07-02T15:46:11Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The USA is exceptional for one thing alone. The Constitution. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ain’t such a bad goal. Would that the whole planet adopted it and abode by it. That’s actually the Declaration of Independence, but I get your point. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/107 "2016-07-02T15:49:07Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > That’s actually the Declaration of Independence, but I get your point. Is the US Constitution really that different from that of other western democracies today? If so, what is the big difference? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/108 "2016-07-02T15:57:11Z")
Guns. Guns are the big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/109 "2016-07-02T16:02:20Z")
It seems to me that people who blather on about exceptionalism are the ones who want to afford special privileges to our government, ones that we would not tolerate other governments having, such as the use of violence, military action, murder, assassination, abduction, or torture in order to pursue policy goals. Or those who believe that exceptionalism should excuse us from being held accountable for our actions in the world. Or those who want to shut down any criticism of or attempt to improve ourselves. Or those who merely want to boast and crow. There is no rational or moral justification for even bringing up the idea of exceptionalism. Be good. Be humble. Be sincere. Work towards a better future. Help the people around you and help everyone in the world. And shut up about exceptionalism. It’s to no one’s benefit to even bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/110 "2016-07-02T16:07:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well \*somebody \*forgot all about Korea. Also Albania, China, Greece, Guatemala, Iran, Laos and France - all of which saw substantial open or covert US interference between 45 and 55. To say nothing of Germany and Japan of course. Actually it started even earlier and lasted at least until various CIA assets started writing books and Frank Church started to hold hearings in the 70’s. (Not that that brought it to a total end, See; Southern Africa, Central America, the Middle East, et al. well into the 80’s.) Also, your list is woefully short. Last time I looked it up it was many, many, more countries, often multiple times, and the only continent spared was Antarctica! (Yeah, we even fucked around in Australia, ask Christopher Boyce, again et al.) “I’m a hired gun for United Fruit” - Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, USMC. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/111 "2016-07-02T16:53:54Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > The pitfall, the trap, lies in forgetting that “exceptional” DOES NOT EQUAL “superior”. Yep. And in forgetting that some of our exceptions/good fortune cannot be applied to other situations - because they are exceptions. Our revolution worked. Most don’t - the French sure didn’t. Once it completed, we had the good fortune to make it through the first 50 years - in part because the common sense of George Washington (him not having children probably helped), the insistence of the Federalists on a strong central government, and the work of the Democratic Republicans to keep some power local, the necessary avoidance of dealing with slavery as an issue, and that we eased into a representational democracy - today you couldn’t start any form of democracy by disenfranchising most of the population, nor could you found a country that backburnered an issue like slavery, or one that simply wiped out aboriginal tribes when it felt necessary. We had exceptional luck, exceptional timing, and frankly took some exceptionally unpleasant measures to get where we are. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/112 "2016-07-02T16:55:11Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Also, your list is woefully short. Last time I looked it up it was many, many, more countries, often multiple times, and the only continent spared was Antarctica! > (Yeah, we even fucked around in Australia, ask Christopher Boyce, again et al.) Oh yes, that’s deliberate - he did imply “right after the war”, so I stuck to those few years. I may be a fucker, but I strive to be fair :p. Besides, if I had done the 60s-70s I would have been here all day… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/113 "2016-07-02T18:16:06Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > It’s shameful and sad to see how liberals hate their own country. American liberals don’t hate their country. American conservatives, however, hate an increasing percentage of their fellow Americans. See how useful and productive these kinds of observations can be? They really keep the topic moving forward. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/114 "2016-07-02T18:44:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > American liberals don’t hate their country. American conservatives, however, hate an increasing percentage of their fellow Americans I wouldn’t say liberals \*hate \*America so much as I would say that they get very, very uneasy anytime America’s strengths are touted in front of an audience without a careful, lengthy accompanying critique of America’s many flaws and defects. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/115 "2016-07-02T19:01:50Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I wouldn’t say liberals \*hate \*America so much as I would say that they get very, very uneasy anytime America’s strengths are touted in front of an audience without a careful, lengthy accompanying critique of America’s many flaws and defects. That’s okay, because I _would_ say that American conservatives can’t form second thoughts about repercussions because their second thoughts are earmarked for either Jesus, guns or pie. I am, of course, being satirical. If you want to discuss why the United States ranks better than other countries by some metric and discount how it ranks lower than other countries by other metrics, that’s fine. The broad generalizations, though, add no information other than confirming the writer’s personal bias. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/116 "2016-07-02T19:18:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I wouldn’t say liberals \*hate \*America so much as I would say that they get very, very uneasy anytime America’s strengths are touted in front of an audience without a careful, lengthy accompanying critique of America’s many flaws and defects. This sounds like another version of right-wing radio’s fantasy liberals. Man those guys are assholes. If liberals really were like that, I’d hate them too. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/117 "2016-07-02T19:34:57Z")
I am not sure if all people mean the same thing with “American Exceptionalism.” I recall Chris Matthews did this “feel good” public service announcement where he lauded American Exceptionalism…and his definition had little to do with what my understanding of the term is. I think it has become a fuzzy phrase denoting that America is somehow special. I see “American Exceptionalism” as the popular interpretation of Frederick Jackson Turner’s 1893 “Frontier Thesis” - the frontier experience made the United States an “exceptional” society, though the “closing of the frontier” as of the 1890 Census threatened this exceptionalism. So there, “American Exceptionalism” is a romantic view of the pre-1890 American past. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/118 "2016-07-02T19:50:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That’s okay, because I _would_ say that American conservatives can’t form second thoughts about repercussions because their second thoughts are earmarked for either Jesus, guns or pie. > I am, of course, being satirical. If you want to discuss why the United States ranks better than other countries by some metric and discount how it ranks lower than other countries by other metrics, that’s fine. The broad generalizations, though, add no information other than confirming the writer’s personal bias. I was being a bit satirical, too. That being said, when people bring up how “great” America is, there is a tendency of liberals, time and time again, to immediately pounce, “What about the health care system? What about racism? What about income inequality? etc. etc.” (I, by the way, am indeed of the opinion that the U.S. health care system is massively screwed up.) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/119 "2016-07-02T20:24:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It seems to me that people who blather on about exceptionalism are the ones who want to afford special privileges to our government, ones that we would not tolerate other governments having, such as the use of violence, military action, murder, assassination, abduction, or torture in order to pursue policy goals. > > Or those who believe that exceptionalism should excuse us from being held accountable for our actions in the world. > > Or those who want to shut down any criticism of or attempt to improve ourselves. > > Or those who merely want to boast and crow. > > There is no rational or moral justification for even bringing up the idea of exceptionalism. > > Be good. Be humble. Be sincere. Work towards a better future. Help the people around you and help everyone in the world. And shut up about exceptionalism. It’s to no one’s benefit to even bring it up. Even though it’s just an opinion your post seems incorrect. Teaching the rest of the world about American exceptionalism is very useful. It gives the lesser nations an example to strive for. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853/120 "2016-07-02T20:29:01Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Even though it’s just an opinion your post seems incorrect. **Teaching the rest of the world about American exceptionalism is very useful. It gives the lesser nations an example to strive for.** Umm…wow. That is very American-arrogant-sounding… :dubious: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/758853.md?page=7)