# American Exceptionalism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 27, 2023, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173 "2023-10-27T12:42:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/81 "2023-11-01T22:16:34Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > That is a convention, not a statute and until you go through that constitutional crisis you don’t know how it will play out locally and what convention is established. I would guess the first party in Canada to defy that convention would find themselves out in the cold. It would be political suicide in the next election. The voters are generally not afraid to reduce a party from 169 seats and a majority government down to [2 seats and a loss of official party status.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Canadian_federal_election) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/82 "2023-11-02T05:20:53Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Oh contraire Nitpick: au contraire. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/83 "2023-11-02T05:29:52Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Yep, as much as I’ve beaten up on the US in this thread, “embarrassing gridlock” is a thing which happens in all Democracies from time to time. Not speakership drama but some other drama. > > Usually it is a catalyst for reforms, and I don’t think it’s impossible (though it is unlikely) that MAGA mania and the speaker debacle might lead to some productive change. IMHO “embarrassing gridlock” is a feature of democracies, not a bug. It is the thing that prevents MAGA and other manias into becoming uncontested national policy. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/84 "2023-11-02T08:19:44Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Nitpick: au contraire. Tres grouse, cobber. Hobigligated. Strine sounds more authentic with the proper pronunciation. Bewdy. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/85 "2023-11-02T09:57:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would guess the first party in Canada to defy that convention would find themselves out in the cold. Right. The Canadian constitution is not just one document, as the United States has; it is a few documents, plus a lot of unwritten conventions, inherited from the British over 900 years of constitutional tradition. To break any of those conventions would invite a constitutional crisis, so those conventions are not broken. It’s just that easy. There are others that we have developed ourselves, such as the doctrine of federal paramountcy, which is where the federal government can override a provincial law, but which power has not been used in over a hundred years. It also joins the constitutional conventions on today’s ash-heap of history, though it is still viable, and could be used in extreme circumstances. End of hijack into Canadian constitutional law. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/86 "2023-11-02T12:15:31Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > IMHO “embarrassing gridlock” is a feature of democracies, not a bug. It is the thing that prevents MAGA and other manias into becoming uncontested national policy. Yes, sometimes. But of course it depends on the reasons for the gridlock and the duration. Otherwise we’re saying all idling is good. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/87 "2023-11-02T16:50:25Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > To break any of those conventions would invite a constitutional crisis, so those conventions are not broken. It’s just that easy. I think you mean > To break any of those conventions would invite a constitutional crisis, so those conventions are not broken unless a group is extreme enough to decide that provoking that crisis is what they want. Which, as of 2023, has not yet happened. But might someday. It’s just that easy for good or for ill; totally stable until a big enough destabilizing force comes along. IMO It’s the calm and measured nature of Canadian _society_ that protects your governing arrangements; not the robustness of words on paper or strength of unwritten traditions. The USA is losing / has lost its society and will perhaps lose its government over that societal breakdown. Canada has a lot farther to go to get to that same unfortunate pass, but IMO if Canada did arrive at the same pass they’d be just as subject to the same failures. The details of course would play out differently. But the overall high-level outcome of chaos and misgovernment would be the same. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/88 "2023-11-02T19:23:17Z")
R. ight. (backs away slowly) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/89 "2023-11-03T18:50:35Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > I was rather surprised that it was apparently NOT sarcasm, myself… Me too. An example of the rare reverse Woosh. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/90 "2023-11-04T22:14:17Z")
When I hear people cockily declare that America is ‘The Greatest Country in the World’, or the only country that’s free, I sometimes sense that it’s an expression of comfort with the geography and culture that’s familiar to them. A Texan who drives a Chevy pickup would probably feel less free in a little econobox that are more common in Europe. But a European might feel the same way if forced to trade vehicles with the Texan (and pay for the gas). Americans seem to be more likely to cast such individual preferences in terms of ‘freedom’. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/91 "2023-11-06T02:19:36Z")
Not entirely serious counterargument: American exceptionalism, at least the perception, is justified, because the US is literally the most important country in the world, because it literally holds the fate of the planet in its hands. I mean, what happens to the world economy if the United States splits up and goes fascist? What happens to global climate change efforts if this one country doesn’t go along? Sleep well tonight; rural voters literally hold the fate of humanity in its hands… ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/92 "2023-11-06T02:41:14Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Sleep well tonight; rural voters literally hold the fate of humanity in its hands… I’d try it this way: > Sleep well tonight; rural voters in the sway of Russian & Chinese propaganda and a senile carnival conman literally hold the fate of humanity in its hands… It’s sooo much more reassuring my way. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/93 "2023-11-06T04:19:24Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Sleep well tonight; rural voters literally hold the fate of humanity in its hands… Unless they get their hands on the nuclear launch codes, they literally do not. At the moment they hold the balance of power in the US. That’s transient. Might be emphatically resolved in whatever remains of the US election cycle. If these guys can’t decide who their leader is, while it might be a buggers muddle stateside, the rest of us are generally well insulated. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/94 "2023-11-06T04:31:57Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > At the moment they hold the balance of power in the US. That’s transient. And that’s why the folks rural areas vote for are making systemic changes to the system: so it’s _not_ transient. To an extent in many areas, they’ve already succeeded. I don’t think it’s impossible that they’ll succeed on a bigger level. That or just ignore the vote and keep power anyway, which is the point of above mentioned systemic changes. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/95 "2023-11-06T09:20:44Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > … that’s why the folks rural areas vote for … I’m not an expert in American socioeconomic demographics but the rural folks of which you speak don’t have the numbers to win any election. Further. I’ll stand corrected but I didn’t see farmers and ranchers forming a significant proportion of the Jan 6th insurrection. Or amongst those in the dock and banged up in chokey as a consequence. The folk your beef is with I would think are predominantly living in the cities/towns, not even necessarily in regional areas. Over 50% of Trump’s 73mil votes in 2020 came from CA, FL, GA, IL, MI, NY, NC, OH, OR & TX which you couldn’t really describe collectively as the folks in rural areas. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/96 "2023-11-06T18:01:45Z")
True enough; I was needlessly specific. Although I think the current wording still stands on a purely literal level… ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/97 "2024-02-15T06:25:22Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I have no doubt you’ve grown up with people telling you “The US taught the world slavery was wrong” or whatever. Yeah, turns out it’s bullshit. This really isn’t taught in school, at least not in the traditional curriculums; on the other hand, I can imagine some children being told this by their parents. By “traditional” curriculums, I mean those used in states that aren’t like Florida and aren’t overtly trying to whitewash the history of slavery and civil rights, or hint that perhaps slavery wasn’t so bad, etc. (Every state manages its own public schools, so there is some variation, and what you may hear in the news about one state’s schools probably doesn’t apply to most other states.) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/98 "2024-02-15T11:49:40Z")
It’s an article of faith on the Right that American health care is the best in the world, and that any other system just kills people right and left. Heck, I recall some politician declaring during the debate over Obamacare that “British health care would have let Stephen Hawking die”. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173/99 "2024-02-15T19:40:46Z")
I recall a debate I had here with a poster (now banned), who kept going on about how terrible the Canadian healthcare system was. In the face of many citations and facts showing superior health outcomes in Canada, he fell back on an American Exceptionalism argument. He was trying to be cagy about it initially. But when pressed and pressed, it became more obvious that the “exceptionalism” that he was using in his definition actually meant “more exceptionally pigmented people, who are genetically less healthy” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-exceptionalism/992173.md?page=4)