# American Family Association bigots disrupt first-ever Hindu prayer in Senate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695 "2007-07-13T19:48:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/21 "2007-07-13T21:23:50Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] The more the theocratic bigots make it plain that they’re unwilling to tolerate other religions, the more likely it is that this “ceremonial deism” crap will be recognized as inappropriate in the context of a secular government. [/QUOTE] This is my take too: That the protest is extremely short-sighted. I don’t mind ceremonial deism at all, but it’s not consistent with “only our religion will do.” So if these stupid protesters were smart enough to know that ceremonial deism is the only rationale for allowing any prayer at all, they would also know that protesting based on the type of religion used undermines the very bulwark (the only bulwark) that protects them. One Hindu prayer a year wouldn’t kill them. Then they could have the other 360 plus. Instead, by making explicit that the only acceptable faith is their own, they make it that much likely that no faith at all will be acceptable in the eyes of the law. Dumbasses. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/22 "2007-07-13T21:30:35Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] Do we know who the protesters were? [/QUOTE] Yes: [Prayer protesters arrested in Senate](http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/prayer-protesters-arrested-in-senate-2007-07-13.html) > [@](#): > > The three people arrested were Ante Nedlko Pavkovic, Katherine Lynn Pavkovic and Christan Renee Sugar, said Sgt. Kimberly Schneider, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Capitol Police. Sugar is the daughter of the other two. On a more hateful note, they all appear to be Serbian Americans. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/23 "2007-07-13T21:39:12Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] they all appear to be Serbian Americans. [/QUOTE] vowel deprived heathens. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/24 "2007-07-13T21:54:45Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] …On a more hateful note, they all appear to be Serbian Americans. [/QUOTE] Your article said they were in Washington to fight some hate crime bill. Ironic. Last time I checked it’s the first _Ammendment_ that is the law of the land, not the first _Commandment_. Fuck’em sideways and anyone who defends them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/25 "2007-07-13T22:12:13Z")
[QUOTE=ivylass] Was THAT who it was protesting? Holy crap. Although, what the hell is a Hindu-American? Is Joe Lieberman a Jewish-American? Is Ted Kennedy a Catholic-American? Since when were we linking religion to nationality? 😕 [/QUOTE] In all fairness, “Jewish-American” is a long-established usage and “Hindu,” like “Jewish,” is a designation with both religious and ethnic connotations. I.e., while there are some few converts, the world Hindu community is composed almost entirely of Indians and persons of Indian descent. (OTOH, “Hindu” is not synonymous with “Indian” since India, even after the partition of Pakistan, remains home to millions of Muslims, not to mention Sikhs.) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/26 "2007-07-13T22:37:22Z")
American Family Association? It’s what, twelve Bible thumpers in Mississippi? The media are giving them way too much cred. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/27 "2007-07-13T22:45:59Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] Do we know who the protesters were? [/QUOTE] The American Family Association, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/28 "2007-07-13T22:49:14Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] American Family Association? It’s what, twelve Bible thumpers in Mississippi? The media are giving them way too much cred. [/QUOTE] They certainly give themselves a lot of cred: [American Family Association - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Family_Association) They suck satan’s scaly cock. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/29 "2007-07-13T23:08:34Z")
Now THOSE people should have been immediately ejected! Forget about babies talking on planes. I can’t believe they were given so many chances to restore their “order.” What were they so offended by - his orange robe? That prayer sounded like what you’d hear at any football game, that is, generic. Do those people protest when a Catholic or Jewish or other-denomination Baptist prays in the Senate also? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/30 "2007-07-13T23:26:29Z")
It’s embarrassing, honestly. I doubt Jesus Himself would get two words out with those people there. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/31 "2007-07-13T23:36:15Z")
The AFA claimed that their objection was that the prayer would be “seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god” but Hinduism isn’t always polytheistic. Some Hindus believe in a single God, which is who the prayer seemed to address. So would the AFA accept prayers from any faith, as long as it’s monotheistic? I doubt it, as I think their real interest is that only their God be worshipped. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2007, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/32 "2007-07-13T23:41:34Z")
Gotta love the AFA. I have their founder, Donald Wildmon, as a perennial pick in my SDMB Death Pool ballot. He’s the only one on my list who is there simply as a “I hope, I hope, I hope” pick… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/33 "2007-07-14T00:10:08Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] This is my take too: That the protest is extremely short-sighted. I don’t mind ceremonial deism at all, but it’s not consistent with “only our religion will do.” So if these stupid protesters were smart enough to know that ceremonial deism is the only rationale for allowing any prayer at all, they would also know that protesting based on the type of religion used undermines the very bulwark (the only bulwark) that protects them. [/QUOTE] Right, but the thing is that there are quite a few fundamentalist Christians who don’t actually argue for such prayers on the basis of ceremonial deism. Some argue outright that, no matter what the legislature or the Constitution or the courts say, the United States is a Christian country founded on Christian principles, and should observe specifically Christian religious forms. If the three protestors are such folks, then it won’t bother them that they are undermining the basis for ceremonial deism, because that’s not what they want anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/34 "2007-07-14T00:13:46Z")
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen] You’ve _never_ heard the term “Jewish-American Princess”? [/QUOTE] Of course, but only to describe a certain type of spoiled, pampered princess who happens to be Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/35 "2007-07-14T00:18:20Z")
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen] vowel deprived heathens. [/QUOTE] Reminds me of that old Onion headline: Clinton Deploys Vowels to Bosnia Cities of Sjlbvdnzv, Grzny to Be First Recipients ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/36 "2007-07-14T02:39:20Z")
The [Family Research Council also weighed in](http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=LH07G02&f=WX06L01): > [@](#): > > No one can legitimately challenge the fact that the God America refers to in the pledge, our national motto, and other places is the monotheistic God of the Jewish and Christian faith. But… But… But it’s all _ceremonial deism_, right? The Supreme Court said so! It’s all about Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Og-worshipping idolaters coming together as Americans to tell atheists to go stuff it! “In God We Trust” and all that stuff isn’t even really _religious_ at all; it’s just a non-denominational, non-sectarian, non-divisive, patriotic utterance of contempt for so-called “Americans” who don’t believe in God, who are undoubtedly all Communists anyway. I mean, who could possibly imagine that interjecting religious ritual into the workings of government–ceremonially, of course, and in an entirely deistic way–would lead to unpleasant, divisive, sectarian “_Our_ God is the One True God, unlike that heathen idol you savages worship!” sorts of nastiness? So, anyway, fuck you, American Family Association and Family Research Council and the rest of that lot, but also fuck you a little bit to the Supreme Court and all the peddlers of the “But it’s just ‘ceremonial deism’!” line. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/37 "2007-07-14T03:37:48Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] But… But… But it’s all _ceremonial deism_, right? The Supreme Court said so! It’s all about Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Og-worshipping idolaters coming together as Americans to tell atheists to go stuff it! [/QUOTE] The Senate prayer is when people from all faiths come together to worship Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/38 "2007-07-14T04:33:02Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] But… But… But it’s all _ceremonial deism_, right? The Supreme Court said so! It’s all about Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Og-worshipping idolaters coming together as Americans to tell atheists to go stuff it! “In God We Trust” and all that stuff isn’t even really _religious_ at all; it’s just a non-denominational, non-sectarian, non-divisive, patriotic utterance of contempt for so-called “Americans” who don’t believe in God, who are undoubtedly all Communists anyway. [/QUOTE] This is absolutely the best explanation of “ceremonial deism” Ive ever read. It should go in textbooks explaining the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/39 "2007-07-14T05:48:37Z")
I have to admire Zed’s conduct durin the whole thing. He displayed tolerance and patience. Evidently the AFA doesn’t consider those to be Christian values as they certainly don’t practice them. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695/40 "2007-07-14T06:30:15Z")
That was a pretty classy prayer. It all turned out well in the end though, right? The jackasses were charged with a reasonable crime and the guy got to finish his prayer. Not much to see here, except that everyone seemed to react exactly as anyone with a brain could have predicted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-family-association-bigots-disrupt-first-ever-hindu-prayer-in-senate/411695.md?page=3)