# American federal government shutdown: Will you notice? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 7, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580 "2011-04-07T20:42:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Taters](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/taters/32/2845_2.png) [@Taters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taters)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/81 "2011-04-08T23:16:09Z")
Yeah, worse than not paying the rank and file feds, is not paying our armed forces. I’m sorry that they’re getting bent over too. It’s so wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/82 "2011-04-08T23:24:55Z")
> [@Taters](#): > > Yeah, worse than not paying the rank and file feds, is not paying our armed forces. I’m sorry that they’re getting bent over too. It’s so wrong. Now would be a horrible time to get killed as [death benefits](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110408/ap_on_re_us/us_us_shutdown_military) will be put on hold for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/83 "2011-04-09T00:03:56Z")
Well, if nothing else, the [editorial commentary](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/08/government-shutdown-2011-live-updates) at the Guardian is absolutely hilarious. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/84 "2011-04-09T01:52:24Z")
I saw on ABC News they said, the IRS refunds that are processed electronically will NOT be effected (or is it affected?). The IRS refunds that are mailed out WILL be delayed ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/85 "2011-04-09T04:20:58Z")
> [@Marc\_Xenos](#): > > Yep, sure do. Actually, I misspoke. In 1964, the entire federal budget was $119 billion. (Compared with $3,830 billion for 2011, or 12x higher.) It was the federal DEBT in 1964 that was almost $312 billion. (Compared with over $14,000 billion in 2011, or 45x higher.) > > So, adjusted for inflation, a 1964 dollar would have to be worth $7.10 to have the same power, or 7x higher. Not 12x or 45x, only 7x. > > And the cheapest 2011 Mustang I can find (sticker price, to compare apples to apples with your 1964 price) is $22,995. Or 10x higher today. Adjusted for inflation, it should cost less than $16,500. > > Shutdown? Better believe it. And a lot of it should stay shut down, forever. Exactly what has the Department of Education done for education since its most recent outbreak in 1979? Johnny STILL can’t read (and now can’t spell for spit, either), but it’s a great bureaucracy for federal politicking with the pretense that our kids’ smarts matter. (Witness the explosion in home schooling? Voucher systems? Charter schools?) Yeah, it’s just fantastic that people won’t be able to get passports or tax refunds. Hurray for government shutdowns! ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/86 "2011-04-09T04:41:53Z")
> [@Marc\_Xenos](#): > > Whoopy big ding. Do it and be done with it. The government was considered bloated and bureaucratic in the 1960’s, and back then the entire federal budget was less than $350 billion, not the $3,830 billion fiasco that it is, now. The total federal civilian workforce has hovered around 2 million people since the 1940s. In the past 70 years the US population has gone from 135 million to almost 310 million. In raw numbers the “bloated” government on a per capita basis has actually gone way down. What has gone way up is the shadow workforce of private contractors paid with your tax dollars, something like 20 million private people. So if you want to complain about a “bloated” government, direct yourself to members of Congress who have created a massive private business system paid for by your tax dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/87 "2011-04-09T04:44:38Z")
[Last Minute Agreement Avoids A Shutdown](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_re_us/us_spending_showdown) Thank god. Granted, I wouldn’t have been affected nearly as badly as someone who works for the government, but I still would have been affected. I’m waiting for my petition for a visa for my fiancee, so each day of a shutdown would force us to wait longer to be together. (queue violins) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/88 "2011-04-09T05:05:12Z")
Well, I’m glad they struck a deal to keep things open. My wife is a court interpreter for the federal immigration courts. But she’s contracted by the government through an agency, not a government employee. Shutting down the government would have meant no work for her and none of this “we’ll pay you retroactively when we sort this all out” stuff either. Just lost wages. ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/89 "2011-04-09T05:18:37Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Now would be a horrible time to get killed as [death benefits](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110408/ap_on_re_us/us_us_shutdown_military) will be put on hold for the time being. HOLY COW!!! The families don’t have much money to start with, but asking volunteer’s to pick up the bill is just too much. This doesn’t surprise me, though. Obama thinks that military people should buy their own health insurance. Its snowing here and my server is dieing (insert lots of bad words over server dieing because of any falling water), but as I recall, Obama said that if they were really patriotic, they would understand that the people who sends them off to get killed can’t afford the health costs and that they should pay for them on their own.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/90 "2011-04-09T06:53:06Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > This doesn’t surprise me, though. Obama thinks that military people should buy their own health insurance. Its snowing here and my server is dieing (insert lots of bad words over server dieing because of any falling water), but as I recall, Obama said that if they were really patriotic, they would understand that the people who sends them off to get killed can’t afford the health costs and that they should pay for them on their own.:smack: [No, he didn’t.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/veteranshealth.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/91 "2011-04-09T20:47:15Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Yeah, it’s just fantastic that people won’t be able to get passports or tax refunds. Hurray for government shutdowns! Let’s see, for 52 weeks, you’ve been sending that money to the IRS, and now you’ve waited another 15 weeks to get it back, and at this very moment, you’re all worried about having to wait ANOTHER few days? Oh, please, scare me with some kind of national emergency. Passports? You just discovered today, only this very day, that you suddenly need to leave the country, and it has to be right away? And while some countries grant you a visitor visa upon entry to that country, most still require you to get a visa in advance, so you’ve already had plenty of warning. I’m just not seeing the panic here. I was caught in the Midwest blackout a number of years ago, and it lasted for 3 days. Life was quite transformed, to be sure. I was never a Marine, but I agree with their culture. You improvise, adapt, overcome. Life goes on. Either you’re part of it, or you can choose the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/92 "2011-04-09T20:52:06Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > The total federal civilian workforce has hovered around 2 million people since the 1940s. In the past 70 years the US population has gone from 135 million to almost 310 million. In raw numbers the “bloated” government on a per capita basis has actually gone way down. What has gone way up is the shadow workforce of private contractors paid with your tax dollars, something like 20 million private people. So if you want to complain about a “bloated” government, direct yourself to members of Congress who have created a massive private business system paid for by your tax dollars. Your point being? Regardless who it’s going to, or who’s to blame, it’s still spending by the government. The rest is just distraction. Time to rein it in. Yeah, I’ll notice. Some of it will probably even affect me. Oh yeah life goes on Long after the thrill of livin’ is gone. Jack 'n Diane ~ John Mellencamp ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/93 "2011-04-09T22:23:21Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > [No, he didn’t.](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/veteranshealth.asp) Thank you. Ignorance fought. There is a utube video out there that “shows” him saying it. I should know better than to believe anything I see/hear online by now. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/94 "2011-04-10T05:32:11Z")
> [@Marc\_Xenos](#): > > Let’s see, for 52 weeks, you’ve been sending that money to the IRS, and now you’ve waited another 15 weeks to get it back, and at this very moment, you’re all worried about having to wait ANOTHER few days? Oh, please, scare me with some kind of national emergency. Passports? You just discovered today, only this very day, that you suddenly need to leave the country, and it has to be right away? And while some countries grant you a visitor visa upon entry to that country, most still require you to get a visa in advance, so you’ve already had plenty of warning. > > I’m just not seeing the panic here. I was caught in the Midwest blackout a number of years ago, and it lasted for 3 days. Life was quite transformed, to be sure. I was never a Marine, but I agree with their culture. You improvise, adapt, overcome. Life goes on. Either you’re part of it, or you can choose the alternative. I don’t personally need a tax refund or passport right at the moment. But some people do, I’m sure. Why should they be inconvenienced? It’s certainly possible that someone needs to leave the country on very short notice. Twice in the last four years I needed to go abroad with less than 24 hours notice, for unexpected family medical reasons. Also, I actually know of a case from the last government shutdown where a coworker was stuck in Japan because he needed to renew his visa and the U.S. embassy was closed. It was a major problem for my employer, he was needed back at work. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/95 "2011-04-10T14:05:23Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > The American news media is obsessed with the current story that the federal government might have to shutdown, at least as far as “non-essential” personnel are concerned. If it does, do you think that you will notice? If so, how? > > Please remember, this is IMHO and not GD. Poll coming. Fortunately this has all become hypothetical, but it kind of misses the point. Most of the posters have commented that they may or may not go to work Monday and that will be the effect. The effect due to the number of federal employees is relatively small. If the Gov’t had shut down, millions of people would have been immediately effected. There are many projects, road construction, supplies (everything from airplanes to food) that require daily inspections by federal employees to be manufactured, etc that would have to stop. To give just one example, the Securities and Exchange Commision informed companies Friday that they would no longer accept applications to issue stock from new companies. Note that occurred before the shutdown and is in effect now. They had so many companies rush to submit their paperwork before the deadline that the system is now overwhelmed. So one effect of the almost shutdown is no new stock issues by US companies for some time (established companies that are doing routine issues can continue, but new companies or new kinds of stock can’t happen). So yes, it would be bad for the federal employees, but millions of people who have no idea their jobs depend on the daily efforts of the federal government would wake up to-nothing. Whether that is how it should be or not is debatable, but that is how things are right now. BTW, the coming fight over the debt limit will have far worse consequences. The fights in DC are at the highest stakes possible. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/96 "2011-04-10T17:50:59Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > So yes, it would be bad for the federal employees, but millions of people who have no idea their jobs depend on the daily efforts of the federal government would wake up to-nothing. Whether that is how it should be or not is debatable, but that is how things are right now. So, as you interpret it, the unavoidable answer is Yes, everyone will notice in some way or another. That would make it fact, not opinion. The opinion part, I would presume, is whether I would notice it enough to be concerned. That’s why I pointed out 1996. It was noticeable. But apparently not enough to be concerned, since most have since forgotten it. And most of the rebuttals to my comments have been concerned with Convenience. Would people be inconvenienced? Most probably, myself included. But I’m inconvenienced daily. That’s life. The scary predictions are just that; scare stories to whip us up into a frenzy to pressure our polticians in one direction or the other. The reality is how people will adapt after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/97 "2011-04-12T12:30:19Z")
I humbly retract what I said earlier; I _would have_ noticed. Apparently I forgot to sign my 1040X for 2009, and so I received a notice from the IRS. While it was very clear what I needed to send back, it was unclear as to which of three addresses I should send it. So, I called the IRS last night, got through right away to a helpful person, and posted it this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/98 "2011-04-12T15:29:39Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I humbly retract what I said earlier; I _would have_ noticed. Apparently I forgot to sign my 1040X for 2009, and so I received a notice from the IRS. While it was very clear what I needed to send back, it was unclear as to which of three addresses I should send it. So, I called the IRS last night, got through right away to a helpful person, and posted it this morning. From a YEAR ago? Doesn’t exactly sound like it was a time crisis, here. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/99 "2011-04-12T18:20:29Z")
> [@Marc\_Xenos](#): > > From a YEAR ago? Doesn’t exactly sound like it was a time crisis, here. Dude, it was 1040_X_, the amended form for 2009 (I had good reasons for waiting until 2010 was already computed), so it’s not from a _year ago_; it’s from the end of January just a couple of months ago! ---
**Author:** ![Marc\_Xenos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Marc\_Xenos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc_Xenos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580/100 "2011-04-13T02:00:57Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Dude, it was 1040_X_, the amended form for 2009 (I had good reasons for waiting until 2010 was already computed), so it’s not from a _year ago_; it’s from the end of January just a couple of months ago! Really, we’re nitpicking here, but that’s EXACTLY the point I’m trying to make. We’re all STILL talking about small stuff, inconveniences at worst. Time is NOT of the essence. Only one poster made a valid point that if all government shut down, there would be serious consequences for all. However, in this situation, total shutdown was not the option, and essential services would continue. Even in MY worst case scenario, some government must continue or you’d have no nation. It’s everyone’s pet services that they’re panicking over. Yeah, yeah, some of you government workers would be furloughed, laid off, unable to provide for your families. With an unemployment rate over 10% for the last couple years, join the crowd. It happens to all of us. We deal with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-federal-government-shutdown-will-you-notice/577580.md?page=6)