# American flag raising: arrogant and inappropriate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132 "2003-03-21T16:11:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/21 "2003-03-21T18:00:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sinful \* > \*\*Just like what the Nazi Germans did when they occupied Poland, France, Holland, Austria, Czechlosvakia etc… Raised their flag in those countries. Just like what the US is doing in Iraq. Very simular. > > Heil Bush \*\* The first time I have gotten to use one of these… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/22 "2003-03-21T18:19:56Z")
I can certainly understand the OP’s point. I do like the idea of flying the US flag under the Iraqi flag though. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/23 "2003-03-21T18:29:31Z")
Then I guess a more appropriate symbolism would be to raise the US and British flags along side the Iraqi flag as a symbol of equality, unity and freedom for the Iraqi people. …where can I pass that suggestion along in the front? ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/24 "2003-03-21T18:39:15Z")
I think the problem with the Iraqi flag is that one could say it is directly representative of Saddam’s regime. Saddam modified the flag at the outset of the Gulf War in 1991, adding the phrase “Allahu Akbar” (God is Great) in the center area, in order to curry favor with fundamentalist Muslims. I don’t believe that the flag would be (or will be) the same without Saddam, so it might be inappropriate to keep that version of the Iraqi flag raised where pieces of Saddam’s regime have been expelled or destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/25 "2003-03-21T18:44:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CyberPundit \* > \*\*By rule I didn’t necessarily mean something enforced by legal authorities. There is apparently a rule that no other national flag is flown in a position superior to the US flag. I don’t know if there is a corrolary which says that the US flag has to be there when some other national flag is flying. \*\* Well, it’s not really a rule as in a law, more of like a rule as in etiquette guideline. But the US flag does not have to be there when some other national flag is flying, either by custom or by law. ---
**Author:** ![Thomas\_Stearns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Thomas\_Stearns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thomas_Stearns)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/26 "2003-03-21T20:24:36Z")
My Lord people, it was a mistake, they took it down, and everything is ok. You’re making a big deal out of a mistake. It’s not like Bush can just sit there and control these people like they were drones in a game of Starcraft. The soldiers out there just acted in the same way that many of soldiers act whenever they liberate a city. That’s all. They were corrected. Next thing you’re going to tell me is that America is showing its imperialistic tendancies when a soldier sneezes thereby proving that we are trying to show our germs are better than Iraq’s. Christ, cut those guys out there a break. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/27 "2003-03-21T20:44:58Z")
Gosh this is so PC! I thought I heard that the US military are being followed by a group of lawyers that can determine what to do and what not to do. I cant provide a cite for that but it seems to be true. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/28 "2003-03-21T21:39:32Z")
I saw an interview with some soldiers before the attack started who had brought an American flag from ground zero with the intention of flying it in Baghdad. This wasn’t some spontaneous, one-off incident. The symbolism of raising the flag _does_ matter. The military strategists are counting on the widespread support of the Iraqi people to achieve their goals. Even those who hate Saddam won’t support the U.S. military if they perceive their goal to be to conquer. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/29 "2003-03-21T21:43:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\*Gosh this is so PC! I thought I heard that the US military are being followed by a group of lawyers that can determine what to do and what not to do. I cant provide a cite for that but it seems to be true. \*\* Er, thanks. Any opinion other than voicing dislike for niceties like international diplomacy? Or do you genuinely not care what other countries think of the US? Seriously, it might seem silly (and as I said above, I think it’s a bit harsh on those individual soldiers responsible) but if we’re serious about the mission in Iraq, appearances are undeniably important. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/30 "2003-03-21T21:46:32Z")
Maybe I should put this in question form: If the US forces are sitting around somewhere they do need to display an American flag, right? To do otherwise, given the number of friendly fire incidents, would be some serious risk taking if you ask me. I agree that once the shooting stops we should follow the rules I found. I think during wartime the rule is display your flag where you can. Methinks we are being prejudged before we have a chance to follow the official peacetime flag rules. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/31 "2003-03-22T02:00:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crusoe \* > \*\*Seriously, it might seem silly (and as I said above, I think it’s a bit harsh on those individual soldiers responsible) but if we’re serious about the mission in Iraq, appearances are undeniably important. \*\* Uhh does everybody forget that there is a war on? Theres several thousand armored vehicles rumbling thru the desert and if the symbolism for that is lost on you consider what we recently did to baghdad in the Shockinaw thing. Are we reducing the significance of this very violent and life altering event to the petty actions of a few soldiers who want to display their patriotism? Excuse me, but have we shot any babies at point blank range? Have we herded women, children and old people into a wooden building and set it on fire? Have we stripped the women naked, raped them then send them to be gassed? are these or any other atrocities happening? We have just gone into a foreign country with nearly half our military and equipment, proceeded to dump enormous amounts of munitions and ordinance on selected key military and political targets, with pinpoint accuracy I might add, with full intentions of liberating and rebuilding this nation and all the naysayers can say is we propped a US flag up somewhere?! Well shoot gomer, be sure you can park that tank at that sidewalk before 6:00PM, dont litter and be damn sure not to rile up the camels. We gotta behave. We’re just guests here… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/32 "2003-03-22T04:25:59Z")
I was just watching the BBC Online news show this footage and make a comment upon it. A moment later, British soldiers were shown erecting a small sign saying “Welcome to Iraq”, with two British flags upon the sign. No one seemed to object. What is the difference? I don’t believe it was a serious gesture, but it was still a subtle way of telling us the “regime change” we have been promised is here. I also think that was the message of the flag hoisting - not that Iraq was conquered territory - but (since we are so fond of cowboy analogies) a new posse is riding into town. And in the far south of Iraq, one that is not too unwelcome. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/33 "2003-03-22T05:28:37Z")
1. Sinful, tape it shut. No matter what you think of Bush, he’s not hitler, that’s just asinine. 2. I’m not in necessary agreement with putting the flag of our country all over the Iraqi landscape, but who’s in there liberating them??? France? 3. It’s very likely that the flag was raised for a propaganda photo, and then quckly taken down because we’re loathe to offend, even thousands of miles from home. 4. Iraq won’t be conquered territory? The hell you say. What are we doing there, painting and landscaping? First we conquer, THEN we liberate… 5. For the money we’re spending over there, I want US flags flying on everything with wheels. 6. The US flag has stood for freedom, and has been the symbol of liberating forces worldwide for a hundred years. Oppressed peoples across the globe have undeniably felt a sense of comfort seeing our troops, our vehicles and our flags proudly waving as they moved into freshly conquered areas, for they knew that their shackles would soon be removed. 7. Despite all the grandstanding I just perpetrated, a flag here and there really isn’t that big of a deal, just get over it, and let it go. ---
**Author:** ![IEatFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c5a1d2/32.png) [@IEatFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IEatFood)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/34 "2003-03-22T08:57:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Just like what the Nazi Germans did when they occupied Poland, France, Holland, Austria, Czechlosvakia etc… Raised their flag in those countries. Just like what the US is doing in Iraq. Very simular. Oh yeah. Any day now, Bush will order the mass gassing of Iraqi Women & Children. This way we will have space to detain Iranians & Jordanians when we start our glorious conquests of their respective nations too. Then we are done, we will use the land we get as a base of operations for managing our divine mission to bring the American Way to those Barbarians in Russia & China, and all the other major world powers that don’t like us. If all goes according to plan, we’ll have our flags flying over about 60% of the land of this planet by about 2010 or, maybe sooner, depending on the weather. This will allow us to spread a WASPish christianity to all those infidels out there (Except for the Jews of course; wouldn’t do to offend our financiers & media controllers would it?) You are right. It _IS_ very eerily _simular_. Seriously though, if I were Joe Iraqi, I would be thrilled to see even the French, Iranian, or Isreali flags temporarily about if it meant Sadom the Sane was out! ---
**Author:** ![IEatFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c5a1d2/32.png) [@IEatFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IEatFood)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/35 "2003-03-22T08:59:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Just like what the Nazi Germans did when they occupied Poland, France, Holland, Austria, Czechlosvakia etc… Raised their flag in those countries. Just like what the US is doing in Iraq. Very simular. Oh yeah. Any day now, Bush will order the mass gassing of Iraqi Women & Children. This way we will have space to detain Iranians & Jordanians when we start our glorious conquests of their respective nations too. Then we are done, we will use the land we get as a base of operations for managing our divine mission to bring the American Way to those Barbarians in Russia & China, and all the other major world powers that don’t like us. If all goes according to plan, we’ll have our flags flying over about 60% of the land of this planet by about 2010 or, maybe sooner, depending on the weather. This will allow us to spread a WASPish christianity to all those infidels out there (Except for the Jews of course; wouldn’t do to offend our financiers & media controllers would it?) You are right. It _IS_ very eerily _simular_. Seriously though, if I were Joe Iraqi, I would be thrilled to see even the French, Iranian, or Isreali flags temporarily about if it meant Sodom the Sane was out! ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/36 "2003-03-22T09:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Being military myself, albeit recently retired (Feb, 2000), my first reaction upon hearing about the flag raising was, “WTF? Didn’t the commanding officers think about that?” > > Then I realized that the COs have a lot of stuff to think about at the moment. Yes, it was ill-advised to raise the flag there. Even better was the immediate correction of the act. \*\* To my knowledge **Monty** , in defense of your fine young soldiers, I’m pretty sure it’s the only example of such an incident which has happened thus far. Certainly, I’ve not heard of it happening often enough for it to qualify as a trend. Also, I smell a rat actually because it was covered by al Jazeera first, and then the Western newswires later. Perhaps the young lads were setup… perhaps not. Look, we have to recognise that this thread was started by **istara** - a highly qualified British journalist based in Dubai. If anyone on this postboard is well placed to comment on how such incidents are “perceived” in the Arabic World, then yeah, it’s **istara** in my opinion. Certainly, I think the matter has been amplified beyond all true relevance to the reality. It’ll fade… ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/37 "2003-03-22T10:29:51Z")
Thanks **Boo Boo Foo**. When I started this thread, I was under the mistaken impression that the flag raising was officially sanctioned by the US military. It now seems that it isn’t, so the OP is essentially redundant. It doesn’t mean the act was any less unfortunate, but hopefully the practice is over now, and it’s good that it was reversed so speedily. So if a moderator wishes to close the thread, I am happy with that, as the debate is now redundant. Alternatively, if people wish to continue debating flag raising generally, either here on in another thread, I am happy with that. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/38 "2003-03-22T11:52:42Z")
**istara** - Let’s hope that this is the worst you will have to worry about - that, in bringing about regime change in Iraq, that we might hurt their feelings in the process by displaying our flag. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/39 "2003-03-22T13:09:06Z")
**Shodan** - things look good in places like Safwan, where Marines and villagers are joining together to tear down posters of Saddam, for me a sign of hope. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132/40 "2003-03-22T13:14:21Z")
It’s not the reactions in southern Iraq I’m worried about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-flag-raising-arrogant-and-inappropriate/163132.md?page=1)