# (American) Football or Soccer? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 31, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849 "2011-05-31T14:12:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/61 "2011-06-01T22:17:37Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > You’ve been drinking the wrong American beers then. > > Nothing against English beers, but the U.S. has far more variety in my experience. Granted, I understand that many pubs in the U.K. brew their own that never gets exported. And the stuff that does get exported is frequently made outside of the U.K. anyway, but most good liquor stores and beer stores have a far broader selection of American brews in both style and number of producers than can be found in the English brew section. > > YMMV. I’m not sure I follow your logic here. Ford has a wider variety of cars than Porsche, but that doesn’t mean I’d rather drive a Focus than a 911. I agree that the US has a wider variety of beers, but it also has a much wider variety of shitty beers. Besides that, what I really meant is that I drink beers that a Briton is more likely to enjoy than an American, 90% of whom will never drink anything more exotic than a Corona. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/62 "2011-06-03T01:53:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m not sure I follow your logic here. Ford has a wider variety of cars than Porsche, but that doesn’t mean I’d rather drive a Focus than a 911. > > I agree that the US has a wider variety of beers, but it also has a much wider variety of shitty beers. Besides that, what I really meant is that I drink beers that a Briton is more likely to enjoy than an American, 90% of whom will never drink anything more exotic than a Corona. Flying Dog, Dogfish Head, Three Floyds, New Holland, New Belgium, New Glarus, Ommegang, Founders, Two Brothers, Avery, Brooklyn, Stone, Sam Adams, Great Lakes, Shorts, Tommyknockers, Great Divide, North Coast, Tyranena, Lagunitas, Rogue, Bells (AKA Kalamazoo), Lost Abbey, Victory, Allagash. These are only a few of the breweries that are U.S. based. How many of them have you had? How many do you consider “shitty” and at the equivalent of a Focus to England’s Porsches? I’m not here to get in a pissing contest. I honestly want to know. If you haven’t had many of these, you really aren’t in any position to judge American beer, which has won many international beer contests. ---
**Author:** ![Phatzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Phatzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatzo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/63 "2011-06-03T03:25:40Z")
Like the “Making love in a canoe” award ---
**Author:** ![BDoors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BDoors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BDoors)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/64 "2011-06-03T09:19:07Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > Nothing against English beers, but the U.S. has far more variety in my experience. Granted, I understand that many pubs in the U.K. brew their own that never gets exported. And the stuff that does get exported is frequently made outside of the U.K. anyway, but most good liquor stores and beer stores have a far broader selection of American brews in both style and number of producers than can be found in the English brew section. I think you could use the same logic to demonstrate the opposite. If I go into a supermarket here there is a vast array of British beers, but only a handful of American ones, even if I include the ones that are probably made under licence here, like Budweiser. Obviously stores in one region will have a wider selection of beers from that region. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/65 "2011-06-03T11:01:56Z")
> [@BDoors](#): > > I think you could use the same logic to demonstrate the opposite. If I go into a supermarket here there is a vast array of British beers, but only a handful of American ones, even if I include the ones that are probably made under licence here, like Budweiser. > Obviously stores in one region will have a wider selection of beers from that region. Please take this somewhere else, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/66 "2011-06-04T11:14:59Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > A little math: > > [In 2010](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/), NFL teams, on average, had 3.0 scoring plays per game: > > - 1.5 passing touchdowns > - 0.8 rushing touchdowns > - 0.1 kickoff / punt return touchdowns > - 0.1 interception return touchdowns > - 0.5 field goals Actually, your link had 1.5FG per game, for 4 scoring plays per team or 8 per game > [@Candyman74](#): > > I’m not sure I get the metric of points per game being a comparison of quality; personally, I enjoy the points to be rare and hard to come by. Makes it more special to me when they’re scored. The frequency of scoring matters only if you’re outside the “sweet spot”. There are 3 aspects that matter: 1. total number of scores per game has to be high enough. If the average number of scores per game is \<1, you’ll get a ton of 0-0 games. Since the action on the field is intended to score a point, a game where neither team is likely to score any points is rather… pointless. 2. percentage of possessions that end in scores can’t be too high or too low. Soccer played with a hockey net would be nigh impossible to score, and hockey with a soccer net would be constant scoring, both don’t make sense. 3. percentage of time where scoring is possible. Soccer suffers from this a bit in comparison to hockey where there are many more shots on goal, each of which could result in a score. In American football and baseball, every play, every pitch is a scoring opportunity. I think soccer pushes the envelope on the low scoring side of the sweet spot ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/67 "2011-06-04T12:15:45Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > And the stuff that does get exported is frequently made outside of the U.K. anyway, but most good liquor stores and beer stores have a far broader selection of American brews in both style and number of producers than can be found in the English brew section. > . A post this stupid could only be a joke. You acknowledge that only a tiny percentage of British beer is actually exported yet you’re comparing the English beer section of an American supermarket with the American beer section in the same supermarket and drawing conclusions? > [@Hoopy Frood](#): > > Flying Dog, Dogfish Head, Three Floyds, New Holland, New Belgium, New Glarus, Ommegang, Founders, Two Brothers, Avery, Brooklyn, Stone, Sam Adams, Great Lakes, Shorts, Tommyknockers, Great Divide, North Coast, Tyranena, Lagunitas, Rogue, Bells (AKA Kalamazoo), Lost Abbey, Victory, Allagash. There’s more real breweries (i.e. not brewpubs) than that in Greater Manchester, a region of England with less than 500,000 people. My hometown of \< 80,000 alone has three breweries. By comparison, the state of Illinois has, according to Wikipedia, 7 real breweries with a number of other brewpubs. Illinois has a population of 12 million. No offence, but I think you’re underestimating the number and variety of British breweries, and British beer consumption, by a couple of orders of magnitude. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/68 "2011-06-04T17:06:54Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > A post this stupid… > > _snip_ > > No offence You know, when people say no offense, they usually mean the exact opposite. Calling me stupid. I don’t know why I’d take offense at that. :rolleyes: And neither was my list meant to be all inclusive. It was just a few that I had thought of off the top of my head. And sex in a canoe? Eric Idle called, he wants his joke from the early 1980’s back. But I’ve seen more variety from Mikkeller at my liquor store than I see in a typical UK beer section here, and Mikkeller is Danish (who frequently joins with other breweries all across the world), so it’s not just American beers that I see a broader variety in. My point was not to disparage UK beers (especially since much of the U.S. beer heritage comes from there) in spite of the disparagement of U.S. beers and beer drinkers going on in this thread. My point was that the broad brush being painted was rather ridiculous. Yes the Miller/Bud/Coors brands suck. I won’t dispute that. But to tar everything with that is ignorant. That was my point. I never said U.K. wasn’t innovative, I just don’t see much of it here when compared to the U.S. and other countries. (Though Brew Dog is always fun.) Of course, a lot of that has to deal with the screwed up distribution laws we have in this country, which get even crazier when exports enter the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/69 "2011-06-06T10:26:22Z")
> [@Hoopy Frood](#): > > You know, when people say no offense, they usually mean the exact opposite. Calling me stupid. I don’t know why I’d take offense at that. Weird, seeing as you used an almost semantically identical phrase in your first post in this thread, then: > [@Hoopy Frood](#): > > Nothing against English beers, but the U.S. has far more variety in my experience. > [@Hoopy Frood](#): > > And neither was my list meant to be all inclusive. It was just a few that I had thought of off the top of my head. Come off it. Dogfish Head, Sam Adams and a few others are the American brewers that American-CAMRA types fawn all over. The beer Subreddit, to name one place, has a boner for the IPA’s those brewers ship (and yes, I’ve had quite a few beers by those brewers), as does Beer Advocate. You pretty much named every American ale brewer of any note in that post. Besides, my point still stands. You misread RNATB’s initial post, where he was clearly talking about per capita consumption of real ale. Per capita consumption of alcohol full stop is significantly higher in the UK than in the US, never mind real ale consumption, where every supermarket chain, whether major or minor, has their own line of real ales on offer in addition to those by local and national brewers. The fact that a state of 12 million has significantly fewer breweries than a city of 500,000 only reinforces this. We get it. Real ale is the latest fad sweeping white middle class America. Can’t you just acknowledge this without trying to denigrate every other country’s brewers? (It isn’t just you that I’ve seen do this.) Can’t you see how stupid it is to judge British beers based on what you get in American supermarkets, especially when, as noted, beer drinking here tends to be incredibly parochial? > [@Hoopy Frood](#): > > And sex in a canoe? Eric Idle called, he wants his joke from the early 1980’s back. Please speak English. I have no idea what you’re talking about. > [@Hoopy Frood](#): > > But I’ve seen more variety from Mikkeller at my liquor store than I see in a typical UK beer section here, and Mikkeller is Danish (who frequently joins with other breweries all across the world), so it’s not just American beers that I see a broader variety in. My point was not to disparage UK beers (especially since much of the U.S. beer heritage comes from there) in spite of the disparagement of U.S. beers and beer drinkers going on in this thread. My point was that the broad brush being painted was rather ridiculous. There was no such disparagement of American ale drinkers. Do you really think per capita consumption of real ale in the US is the same as it is in the UK? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/70 "2011-06-06T11:13:36Z")
I’ve attended two American football-mad schools (Penn State and Nebraska) and have come to the following conclusion: if American football is so exciting, why does it need cheerleaders and halftime shows? There is a whole culture around US football games that is tremendous fun, including the aforementioned cheerleaders and halftime shows and tailgate parties (I loves me a good tailgate party) and pep rallies and so forth. But the game itself consists of a few seconds of action followed by long periods of standing around, lining up, commercial breaks, yadda yadda yadda. I think someone in another thread cited a study that said that an average football game has 11 minutes of actual play spread over three hours. Boooooooring. If American football were played like rugby in that you could just pick up the ball and keep going, it’d be a helluva a lot more interesting. At least soccer keeps moving. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/71 "2011-06-06T18:02:58Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Besides, my point still stands. You misread RNATB’s initial post, where he was clearly talking about per capita consumption of real ale. Quite possibly, but my experience has been that when people usually say I prefer “x” country’s beer over U.S. beers, what they really mean is U.S. beer sucks. Of course, I should have taken into consideration that on the whole the Dope seems more open-minded and knowledgeable than the general internet populace, so I probably shouldn’t have read as much between the lines as I did. > [@](#): > > We get it. Real ale is the latest fad sweeping white middle class America. Can’t you just acknowledge this without trying to denigrate every other country’s brewers? (It isn’t just you that I’ve seen do this.) Can’t you see how stupid it is to judge British beers based on what you get in American supermarkets, especially when, as noted, beer drinking here tends to be incredibly parochial? You’re right, and I apologize. I wasn’t so much trying to denigrate England’s brewers as bring up the point that it’s very much a matter of what you can get from the corner of the world you are in. (And since the only other country I mentioned was Denmark, and that was a complement towards them, I don’t see how I’m denigrating every other countries brewers. Not to mention that I compliment Brew Dog which is Scottish.) And that’s quite possibly the point RNATB was getting at with his perference of UK beers. And the Porsche vs. Ford comment could have been a reference to the fact that even good U.S. breweries can produce sub-par products in their lineups. And he’s right on that. > [@](#): > > Please speak English. I have no idea what you’re talking about. That was actually in response to Phatzo’s drive-by post (#63). > [@](#): > > There was no such disparagement of American ale drinkers. Do you really think per capita consumption of real ale in the US is the same as it is in the UK? No. But 90% was a ridiculous statistic. But then again, maybe I’m colored by the types of people I socialize with. IME, the statistic is almost the exact opposite. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/72 "2011-06-06T18:19:37Z")
Again, please take the beer war elsewhere. I subscribed to this thread due to its original subject matter, and your endless and needless hijack needs to find a more appropriate home. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/73 "2011-06-06T18:27:32Z")
And I subscribed to this thread so I could disagree with **unwashed brain** … so stop making me agree with him. Beer-talk in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/74 "2011-06-06T21:47:44Z")
\*\*[Mod Hat] \*\*Please take note that it says football in the title and OP of this thread, not beer. You’re all very free to continue your discussions of beverage in the Cafe Society, but please leave it out of this thread. Any further hijacks will result in robotic sharks. That is all. \*\*[/Mod Hat] \*\*- Gukumatz, Game Room Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/75 "2011-06-07T02:27:10Z")
Wait, robotic sharks are supposed to be a _deterrent_? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849/76 "2011-06-07T02:40:52Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I like both. I doubt I am alone in that. I like both, but go to a lot more matches (soccer) than games (Am. football), so picked soccer. I still like American football just fine, but prefer to watch it on TV. American football is the ultimate American television sport. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-football-or-soccer/583849.md?page=3)