# American generals who were fired for tactical blunders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096 "2013-10-01T15:03:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/1 "2013-10-01T15:03:02Z")
Today, it was announced that two [Marine Corps generals were held responsible for a deadly Taliban attack on Camp Bastion, Afghanistan, on Sept. 14, 2012 and fired](http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/News/tabid/3480/Article/151114/following-investigation-marine-corps-to-relieve-two-general-officers-for-camp-b.aspx). I wonder if there are other examples in American military history were a general has been fired for a tactical blunder. Note that this is not about officers who are fired for reasons of personal conduct, making controversial remarks, stealing government money etc. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/2 "2013-10-01T15:08:20Z")
Tons. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/3 "2013-10-01T15:08:54Z")
Many generals who served for the Union in the American Civil War were incompetent and were fired by Lincoln until he settled upon Grant. [General McClellan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._McClellan) comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/4 "2013-10-01T15:13:34Z")
Truman took Korea away from MacArthur, and for fairly good reasons. That may be the biggest of the last century or so. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/5 "2013-10-01T15:15:55Z")
The book _The Generals American Military Command from World War II to Today_ by Tom Ricks deals with this a lot. Part of his point is that back in WW2 and before Generals were frequently fired for under performing. He feels that modern generals get a pass from military leadership and only get fired by civilian leadership when its a political issue. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/6 "2013-10-01T15:16:01Z")
General McClellan was fired, if I recall correctly, because he was essentially unwilling to fight. But this could be viewed as a disagreement with the commander-in-chief on strategical matters in general. I was thinking more of blunders on the mere tactical level which occurred while they were responsible for the whole operation. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/7 "2013-10-01T15:21:59Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Truman took Korea away from MacArthur, and for fairly good reasons. That may be the biggest of the last century or so. MacArthur wasn’t removed for tactical mistakes, but for insubordination. According to Truman’s most famous quote on the subject: > [@](#): > > I fired him because he wouldn’t respect the authority of the President. I didn’t fire him because he was a dumb son of a bitch, although he was, but that’s not against the law for generals. If it was, half to three-quarters of them would be in jail. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/8 "2013-10-01T15:24:40Z")
Dan Sickles in the Civil War nearly lost the battle of Gettysburg. He had too much clout to be fired (and lost a leg in the battle), but was sent away from the front lines. I seem to remember a couple of generals of the Civil War who were sent off to command troops in Montana after mistakes. On the Confederate side, Joseph Johnston was relieved of command because of the way he handled Sherman’s advance on Atlanta (though most historians agree that was unfair – Johnston did the best anyone could have done). But the South was so short on commanders then that he was put back into command. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/9 "2013-10-01T15:33:10Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > General McClellan was fired, if I recall correctly, because he was essentially unwilling to fight. But this could be viewed as a disagreement with the commander-in-chief on strategical matters in general. I was thinking more of blunders on the mere tactical level which occurred while they were responsible for the whole operation. I think you could argue in his case it was both. He certainly had opportunities to follow up on a tactical advantage which he failed to take. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/10 "2013-10-01T15:35:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > MacArthur wasn’t removed for tactical mistakes, but for insubordination. True, but Truman’s fury was at DM not following orders and making what he regarded as the correct moves; isn’t that a form of tactical error? I’d have to go skim to see what the actual acts of insubordination were, but I recall some of them being severe misjudgments of enemy strength and intent. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/11 "2013-10-01T15:39:28Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > I was thinking more of blunders on the mere tactical level which occurred while they were responsible for the whole operation. [Fitz John Porter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitz_John_Porter) was courtmartialled and dismissed from the army for his actions at Second Bill Run (although he was not the overall commander). Besides McClellan, other Union commanders were dismissed, “allowed to resign,” or had overall command taken from them and given to someone else in the aftermath of major defeats, including McDowell, Pope, Burnside, and Hooker. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/12 "2013-10-01T15:42:57Z")
I did find two cases myself, one that is relatively well known, and a rather obscure one: > **[Lloyd Fredendall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Fredendall)** > > Lieutenant General Lloyd Ralston Fredendall (December 28, 1883 – October 4, 1963) was a general officer of the United States Army who served during World War II. He is best known for his leadership failure during the Battle of Kasserine Pass, leading to one of America's worst defeats of World War II, for which he was relieved of his command. > He was in command of the Central Task Force landings during Operation Torch in North Africa, and led II Corps during the early stages of the Tunisian Campai... > **[James L. Baldwin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_L._Baldwin)** > > Major General James Leon Baldwin (February 28, 1921 – November 8, 1979) was a career United States Army officer who served as commander of the 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division from 1970 to 1971. > James Leon Baldwin was born in Omaha, Nebraska on February 28, 1921. He attended schools in Wichita and Ness City, Kansas and graduated from high school in Ness City in 1938. > Baldwin attended Kansas State Teachers College from 1938 to 1939, and enlisted in the National Guard in 1939. When National Gua... I’m especially interested in the type of incident [which cost Gen. Baldwin his job](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_FSB_Mary_Ann#Controversy_and_Aftermath). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/13 "2013-10-01T15:46:57Z")
[Lloyd Fredendall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Fredendall)is probably the poster boy. Also [Ned Almond](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Almond) probably should have been shit-canned in Korea, but inexplicably wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/14 "2013-10-01T15:49:46Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > True, but Truman’s fury was at DM not following orders and making what he regarded as the correct moves; isn’t that a form of tactical error? I’d have to go skim to see what the actual acts of insubordination were, but I recall some of them being severe misjudgments of enemy strength and intent. Truman’s main motivation and justification for firing MacArthur was the public statements he made. There may have been differences on tactical decisions too, but these were not the main and immediate reasons Truman took the extreme and controversial step of relieving him. MacArthur was not specifically accused of not following orders. [Truman’s relief of MacArthur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_Truman's_relief_of_General_Douglas_MacArthur) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/15 "2013-10-01T15:50:19Z")
Admiral Kimmel was relieved after the attack on Pearl Harbor. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/16 "2013-10-01T16:04:40Z")
George Marshall, who was in Truman’s cabinet as Sec of State and was the top general in WWII told Truman that MacArthur should have been fired earlier. Ambrose Burnside comes to mind instantly upon reading the OP ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/17 "2013-10-01T16:35:07Z")
[This list](http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-american-civil-war-generals.php) of worst Civil War generals includes five who are cited as having been relieved of command/“recalled”. And that’s an underestimate seeing that one of those generals (Braxton Bragg, CSA) had his command taken away after the disaster at Chattanooga, and became military advisor to Confederate Pres. Jefferson Davis.\* \*which sounds like another disaster, but by that time even Bragg couldn’t have sent the South’s military fortunes much deeper into the toilet by giving bad advice. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/18 "2013-10-01T16:43:48Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Admiral Kimmel was relieved after the attack on Pearl Harbor. So was General Short. They were eventually [forgiven by Congress](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Short). ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/19 "2013-10-01T17:06:07Z")
Brigadier General Terryl Schwalier was made the scapegoat for the Khobar Towers bombing in 1996 and forced to retire. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096/20 "2013-10-01T17:12:34Z")
[Arthur St. Clair](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Clair%27s_Defeat) might be the first – he had the honor to be fired (aka “asked for his resignation”) by George Washington himself. President Washington was famously, thunderously pissed off: (See [here](http://books.google.com/books?id=hiJzO5D7U4gC&pg=PT273&lpg=PT273&dq=Washington%27s+anger+at+St.+Clair&source=bl&ots=Xdguz3V4N3&sig=Qm38erQsixLgn8bDdxuttGvyivw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3v5KUr6fKJKo4AOXv4HICA&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Washington%27s%20anger%20at%20St.%20Clair&f=false)) [QUOTE=John Ferling] According to his stepgrandson, who was residing at the President’s House in Philadelphia, Wasington’s hair-trigger temper snapped when he received word of the disaster. '“My last solemn warning to St. Clair,” he supposedly roared, had been to “beware of a surprise! You know how the Indians fight us.” Instead, Washington raged, his voice straining with anger, St. Clair had “suffer[ed] that army to be cut to pieces, hacked, butchered, tomahawked.” Washington knew there would be questions and condemnations, and he was correct. [/QUOTE] No surprise the Pres was pissed – [QUOTE=Wikipedia] The casualty rate was the highest percentage ever suffered by a United States Army unit and included St. Clair’s second in command. Of the 52 officers engaged, 39 were killed and 7 wounded; around 88% of all officers became casualties. After two hours St. Clair ordered a retreat, which quickly turned into a rout. “It was, in fact, a flight,” St. Clair described a few days later in a letter to the Secretary of War. **The American casualty rate, among the soldiers, was 97.4 percent** , including 632 of 920 killed (69%) and 264 wounded. Nearly all of the 200 camp followers were slaughtered, for a total of 832 Americans killed. Approximately one-quarter of the entire U.S. Army had been wiped out. Only 24 of the 920 officers and men engaged came out of it unscathed. Indian casualties were about 61, with at least 21 killed. [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-generals-who-were-fired-for-tactical-blunders/670096.md?page=2)