# American Girls Names = British Boys Names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 26, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395 "2003-11-26T15:48:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/41 "2003-11-27T00:23:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by notquitekarpov \* > \*\*Terry, Adrian, Jamie and Vivian (latterly if only from the legacy of “The Young Ones”). Maybe Evelyn too - as in Waugh? \*\* I can’t speak for the whole of england but IME Terry, Adrian, Jamie = male, Vivian = female (though I see someone disagrees, so I’m probably wrong.) Evelyn = male if I think of Evelyn Waugh, female otherwise. Can I check - people really use these as female names? BTW one no-one’s mentioned yet, but I think might be different - Sean (pronounced “Shawn”) is completely male. ---
**Author:** ![Future\_Kid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@Future\_Kid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_Kid)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/42 "2003-11-27T01:16:57Z")
I remember a girl in the film the Goonies called Andy. I’m called Andy, short for Andrew. I’ve never met any female in the UK refered to as Andy. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/43 "2003-11-27T01:36:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by slipster \* > **As a generality, in The United States distinctive given names start out as masculine and then come to be applied to women over time.** Going back further, many start as Surnames and then become masculine given names and then feminine. McKenzie is a good example of this. 'Course, following this trend we can expect in a generation or two, to hear of little girls named Gordon, Rodney and Bruce. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![boofy\_bloke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@boofy\_bloke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boofy_bloke)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/44 "2003-11-27T02:24:18Z")
You can name your child or yourself anything you like as long as it isn’t offensive, a trademark or a copyright, I think, so it’s only cultural conditioning that makes names boy’s or girl’s. [sub]I’ve always wanted to put little letters here[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/45 "2003-11-27T03:02:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by casey-lou \* > \*\*hey i am from da uk and i know girls that are called them names so y do u think that its not the care ma best matse are calle leslie robin and stacey stcaey is a girls name and alsweya have been it always will be so u are really chattin sum shit \*\* Allo. Big up to you. Aye its Ali G innit. Ali is also a ladies name. eg Ali McGraw ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/46 "2003-11-27T05:55:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skammer \* > **Just curious, has anyone ever heard of “Shirley” used as a man’s name?** Besides the already-mentioned Shirley Crabtree, there was Shirley Povich, a longtime Washington Post writer and the father of USA television personality Maury Povich. [This page](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/general/povich/povich.htm) contains links to many articles written by, and about, Shirley. **quiltguy154** : Not literally “Florence”, but Florenz Ziegfeld was the head of the Chicago Musical College and the father of [a namesake son](http://www.sandowmuseum.com/ziegfeld.html) who became a showman of considerable renown. The younger Ziegfeld was nicknamed “Flo”. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/47 "2003-11-27T06:02:23Z")
I used to know a husband and wife both named Shirley. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/48 "2003-11-27T06:13:46Z")
Shirley, you’re joking! ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/49 "2003-11-27T07:12:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mascaroni \* > \*\*Gay Byrne is a famous (male) Irish chat show host. \*\* He’s not the only Irish male called Gay. It’s a nickname for Gabriel. A bit out of fashion now, for obvious reasons, but not terribly unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Quack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e99b99/32.png) [@Quack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quack)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/50 "2003-11-27T07:42:07Z")
Shirley Ujest! ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/51 "2003-11-27T12:25:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by acsenray \* > \*\*There are many names in English that started out as masculine names, but have, over time, drifted in the public mind towards the feminine (to varying degrees) – > > Leslie, Stacy, Tracy, Terry, Vivian, Adrian, Lynn, Kelly, Ginger, Alexis, Randy, Christy, Shelly, Beverly, Marion, Hilary, Evelyn, Jamie, Julie, Jill, Georgie – > > My guess is that to the extent that you might still find men who have such names (and they do, both in America and in England), you’ll tend find more of them in England, just because of the stronger traditional influences. \*\* I’m English, but the only male Marions I’ve come across have been American, e.g. John Wayne. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/52 "2003-11-27T16:23:26Z")
Waitaminnit. Randy as a _girl’s_ name? :eek: In Southern Ontario, the following names are definitely male: Adrian, Randy, Jamie, Georgie (uncommon as a full personal name; might be a nickname). Definitely female: Stacy, Tracy, Vivian, Lynn, Kelly, Ginger, Christy, Shelly, Beverly, Marion (extremely uncommon with the ‘o’), Hilary, Evelyn, Julie, Jill. Could be either: Leslie, Terry. ---
**Author:** ![Amethyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@Amethyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amethyst)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/53 "2003-11-27T17:49:38Z")
I haven’t seen the name Kim on this list. I’ve known male and female Kims. And to the discussion of Andy , I’ve seen the variant Andie used for a girl (ie Andie MacDowell). I’ve been reading through baby name books these days and have found a number of names in the boys section that I think of as girl names including Ocean and Cassidy. The name Evelyn seems to be pronounced differently for a male versus female (at least to the best of my observation). The male pronounciation seems to be Eave-Lyn as in Evelyn Waugh. Whereas any female I have known with the name has been Ev-i-lyn ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/54 "2003-11-27T18:20:14Z")
A few weeks ago I went to the Tate Britain gallery and looked with interest (although not 100% admiration) at the exhibition of [sculptures by Lynn Chadwick](http://www.blockmuseum.northwestern.edu/grafx/collections_newacquisitions-chadwick.jpg). “Hmm… some unusual stuff she’s done there,” I thought. Imagine my surprise when, reading a newspaper article a couple of days ago, I discovered Lynn Chadwick was a bloke! Oops. Another good example of this phenomenon is Beverley Goodway, a “glamour” photographer for Page 3 of The Sun newspaper, who retired recently. He was a man, too. (And a lucky one, some might say.) ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/55 "2003-11-27T21:10:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shade \* > \*\*I can’t speak for the whole of england but IME Terry, Adrian, Jamie = male, Vivian = female (though I see someone disagrees, so I’m probably wrong.) Evelyn = male if I think of Evelyn Waugh, female otherwise. > > Can I check - people really use these as female names? > > \*\* famous(ish in some cases) Vivians: Richards (cricketer) Stanshall (professional eccentric) Anderson & Busby (footballers) Campbell (Def Leppard)… Carol: Carol Reed the film producer (Third Man etc.) and King Carol. ---
**Author:** ![Flamsterette\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/41988e/32.png) [@Flamsterette\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flamsterette_X)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/56 "2003-11-28T00:06:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Clark K \* > \*\*I used to know a husband and wife both named Shirley. \*\* I was reading the birth announcements once, and there was one in which both the father and mother were named Kim. (I’ve known both female and male Kims) Last year, I was reading [_City of Joy_]([www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/) detail/-/0446355569?v=glance) by Dominique LaPierre. He mentions in the acknowledgements section that his wife is also named Dominique. I am quite aware that my first name can be used for both males and females… I even had a male schoolmate who was a year higher than I was, that had both the same first and last names as I did. Haven’t seen the name Dana on this list yet… there was a guy named Dana in one of my college classes. (plus of course the ex-Vancouver Canuck Dana Murzyn) I also used to know two female Danas. One of them had a sister named Shannon, which can also be a male name… Mindy Tran’s accused killer had that name, if I rememver correctly. The other one had a sister named Lee, which we all know can be a male name. (in fact, one of my good male friends is named Lee) F\_X ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/57 "2003-11-28T14:22:25Z")
> [@](#): > > You can name your child or yourself anything you like as long as it isn’t offensive, a trademark or a copyright, In the United States, you can name your child _anything_, period. Many European states have rules on naming, but I’d be surprised if trademarks entered into it. Copyrights definitely would not enter into it, because you can’t copyright a word or phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Shepherdless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Shepherdless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shepherdless)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/58 "2003-11-28T15:12:40Z")
In Canada, there are male MPs called [Lynn Myers](http://www.lynnmyers.com/) and [Carmen Provenzano](http://www.cprovenzano.on.ca/) . A good site for the origin of names is [Baby Namer](http://tools.oxygen.com/babynamer/) . For example, per the site, the origin of Vivian is Vivianus, a male Latin name meaning “Lively.” Stacey comes from Eustachios, a Greek name meaning “Bountiful grapes.” Shirley was orginally a British aristocratic surname and came from _scir leah_, an Old English phrase meaning “Sunny glade.” Marion is probably derived from Myriam, originally a female Hebrew name which was adopted by Christians as a male name in reverence for the Virgin Mary, who was known by this name. Many female names are derived from male names in the first place, by adding a “y”, “ette” “ine”, and so on. So it should be no surprise that male names that end similarly are eventually adopted as female names. Also, any made-up name that sounds “cute” tends to be given to girls. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395/59 "2003-11-28T15:36:00Z")
A trend that I have found personally annoying is the femininization of Indian masculine names like Ananda and Chandra. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-girls-names-british-boys-names/215395.md?page=2)