# American Gods question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 3, 2002, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070 "2002-11-03T04:55:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/1 "2002-11-03T04:55:47Z")
Okay, I just finished reading Neil Gaiman’s _American Gods_. And I managed to figure out (ahead of time) many of the little details that are revealed later on. (Things about Shadow, who Mr. World was, identities of certain gods, etc). However, there’s one that is still kind of tricky, and I haven’t found it yet. And forgive me if somebody has already asked this elsewhere (I think this is pretty likely). The god that seems to disappear from memory quickly. Or at least, Shadow could never solidly catch or remember his name. Best I can figure is that he was from some Hindu / Indian pantheon – this primarily from the fact that Wednesday has to promise him _Soma_, which I found was a drink of the gods in Hindu mythology. Haven’t been able to pinpoint who exactly this guy is, though – I’m guessing it must be some god of forgetfulness, or something similar. But I haven’t been able to pinpoint a specific name. Anybody know this one? ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/2 "2002-11-03T05:22:07Z")
This question has been asked and debated many times over on the [www.neilgaiman.com](http://www.neilgaiman.com) discussion boards, with no result. neil himself has been asked several times but has refused, for whatever reason to answer the question. you could go to the above mentioned site and ask but I must warn you that the most of the posters there are full to semi full asshats. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/3 "2002-11-03T07:08:30Z")
> [@](#): > > This question has been asked and debated many times over on the [www.neilgaiman.com](http://www.neilgaiman.com) discussion boards, with no result. neil himself has been asked several times but has refused, for whatever reason to answer the question. Right. In fact, I already saw the FAQ questions about it on his site, where this same question is item # 1, and then item #2 is from another reader (curses on him/her!! 😉 ) who requests that Gaiman **not** answer the question! That s right here: [American Gods FAQ](http://www.neilgaiman.com/faq/faq.asp#amgods) So, that’s why I posted here. Apparently this is one that **can** be figured out, since Gaiman said he was going to answer (suggesting it’s not a god he just made up). Since I couldn’t get the answer on the Gaiman site, I was wondering if anybody here has managed to figure it out themselves? So, anyone? anyone? Bueller? Bueller? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![haardvark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@haardvark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/haardvark)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/4 "2002-11-09T18:01:24Z")
I have given some thought to the identity of this God…clearly seems to have something to do with money. The _concept_ of money and wealth, perhaps? As far as why he is so intangible, maybe that’s because the POWER of money is so intangible itself? Sure, you can count money, but the local-global effects of wealth are pretty nebulous and there’s a lot going on behind the scenes. Plus, the power of money is often that much more powerful when it is unseen, and done in secret (viz. Deep Throat in _All the President’s Men_, etc.). As to the Soma thing, well, can’t bribe him with money, and what does a God like that care for war, blood, and corpses. This God wants the bottom line, which, it sounds like for Gods, equals Soma. Just my 2 cents worth, it’s a theory still in progress. I only finished the book yesterday. Loved it to bits, though. Now I need to pester all my friends endlessly to read it too (like I did with Tim Powers’ _Last Call_, and Neal Stephenson’s _Cryptonomicon_). Now, here’s my question: Who/what were Czernobog and Bielebog supposed to represent? I pieced together most of the other pantheic references but not that one… 'vark ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/5 "2002-11-09T18:26:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Monstre \* > \*\* > So, that’s why I posted here. Apparently this is one that **can** be figured out, since Gaiman said he was going to answer (suggesting it’s not a god he just made up)._\* Frankly, I think Neil is just messing with us. I don’t think it can be figured out, and I don’t think there’s a real answer. ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/6 "2002-11-09T22:43:41Z")
If you look at the official Neil Gaiman website’s FAQ linked in the OP, it does mention that there _is_ an answer to this question, and Gaiman was about to reveal it. Then someone wrote him asking him not to do that. Personally, I’m kinda surprised this question has apparently stumped the Dopers here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/7 "2002-11-09T23:11:06Z")
So, Arteyu, are you going to enlighten us? I’ll give you a lump of sugar 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/8 "2002-11-09T23:33:50Z")
Regardin Czernobog and Bielobog, from [This AOL Web site](http://members.aol.com/hpsofsnert/beli.html): > [@](#): > > In the beginning, there were no earth and no people, only the primordial sea. Bielobog flew over the face of the waters in the shape of a swan and was lonely. Longing for someone to keep him company, he noticed his shadow, Chernobog and rejoiced. > > “Let us make land” said Bielobog. > > “Let us,” said Chernobog, but where will we get the dirt?" > > “There is dirt under the water, go down and get some,” answered Bielobog, but before you can reach it, you must say ‘With Bielobog’s power and mine’." > > The devil dived into the water, but said “With My Power”, instead of what he was instructed to say. Twice he dived down and neither time did he reach the bottom. Finally, the third time he said “With Bielobog’s Power and Mine” and he reached the dirt. Scraping some up with his nails, he brought it to the surface but hid a grain of dirt in his mouth in order to have his own land. > > God then took the dirt from him and scattered it upon the water. The dirt became dry land and began to grow. Of course, the land in Chernobog’s mouth also began to grow and his mouth began to swell. Chernobog was forced to spit and spit to rid himself of all the earth and where he spit, mountains were formed. > > Angered that he was cheated out of his own land, he waited for Bielobog to fall asleep. As soon as the god was sleeping peacefully, Czernobog lifted him up to throw him in the water. In each direction he went, but the land had grown so much, he could not reach the ocean. When Bielobog awoke, Czernobog said “Look how much the land has grown, we should bless it.” > > …And Bielobog said slyly, “I blessed it last night, in all four directions, when you tried to throw me in the water.” > > This greatly angered Czernobog who stormed off to get away from Bielobog once and for all. In the meantime, the earth would not stop growing. This made Bielobog very nervous as the Heavens could no longer cover it all, so he sent an expedition to ask Czernobog how to make it stop. > > Czernobog had since created a goat. When the expedition saw the great god Czernobog riding astride a goat, they couldn’t stop laughing. This angered the god and he refused to speak to them. Bielobog then created a bee, and sent the bee to spy on Czernobog. > > The bee quietly alit upon Czernobog’s shoulder and waited. Soon, she heard him say to the goat “What a stupid god! He doesn’t even know that all he has to do is take a stick, make a cross to the four directions and say ‘That is enough earth’. Instead he wonders what to do.” > > Hearing this, the bee buzzed off in excitement. Knowing that he’d been heard, Czernobog yelled after the bee, “Whoever sent you, Let him eat your excrement!”. > > The bee went directly to Bielobog and said "He said All you need to do is make a cross to the four directions and say ‘That is enough earth.’ And to me he said ‘let whomever sent you eat your excrement’. > > So god stopped the earth from growing and than said to the bee “Then forever after, let there be no excrement sweeter than yours.” > > This myth is a combination of myths from Bulgarian and Ukranian sources. Although the > versions of these myths use God and Satanail as the dual creators, Slavic scholars agree that the myth is a later form of the original dualism of Czernobog and Bielobog. Because of this I have replaced the names. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/9 "2002-11-10T01:01:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LunaSea \* > \*\*So, Arteyu, are you going to enlighten us? I’ll give you a lump of sugar 😉 \*\* For Artax, I assume? 😃 I wish I knew the answer myself. My strong suspicion is that it is a god of memory, but I’ll be darned if I can figure out which mythological pantheon he hails from. For some reason, the name “Lethe” keeps coming to mind whenever I think of this question, but I get the feeling that can’t be right. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/10 "2002-11-10T04:14:20Z")
Last night I saw upon a stair A little man who wasn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2002, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/11 "2002-11-10T08:11:53Z")
If you want a WAG, I’d say it’s Fate. He would hang out in a place where people’s fates changed quickly, almost randomly. Vegas? Who would Fate hang out with in Vegas? There’s a passing moment when Wednesday asks him if “she” will be coming, to which our stranger tells him no. Who is “she”? Another WAG, but I’d say Lady Luck (who never appears if you call her name anyway). Of course that doesn’t explain the innate connection with money, or why he’d be forgotten so quickly, but that’s my guess. I first thought he might be a god of money, but I thought that Money would be one of the new gods instead of the old (even though currency is old, people haven’t been “worshipping” it to the extent of modern times). ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/12 "2002-11-11T04:10:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I have given some thought to the identity of this God…clearly seems to have something to do with money. The concept of money and wealth, perhaps? **haardvark** – I was thinking forgetfulness, but wealth also makes sense – after all, he was the guy in Vegas. I’m still thinking Hindu pantheon, since I found _Soma_ listed as the drink of the gods in Hindu mythology. If it’s Hindu, then possibly **Kubera** – Hindu god of wealth…? [Kubera](http://www.pantheon.org/articles/k/kubera.html) Although I’m still trying to look up references to this god to see if there’s any good reason why people should immediately forget him. He’s also mentioned on this page, which I didn’t find before, but found now when searching on Czernobog (I was going to find other resources to link for you, on that one). This page appears to be an attempt to list the gods appearing in _American Gods_, according to the person who did this page. He lists Kubera on it (although not specifically as Forgotten Guy, and I don’t know if he’s right or not even if that’s the one he intended). [only the gods are real](http://www.frowl.org/heyjupiter/gods.html) He’s got quick descriptions of Bielebog and Czernobog, too. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2002, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-gods-question/135070/13 "2002-11-11T04:37:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Atreyu \* > \*\*If you look at the official Neil Gaiman website’s FAQ linked in the OP, it does mention that there _is_ an answer to this question, and Gaiman was about to reveal it. Then someone wrote him asking him not to do that. > \*\* I know. I read it before. I didn’t believe it then, and I don’t believe it now. I think Gaiman is just messing with us. If the easily forgotten god is not completely invented then many of his distinguishing features must be. Anyone who believes otherwise should feel free to change my mind by finding a mythical god that is consistent with the description in the book, but I don’t think it can be done.