where the numeric box contains “$115.49”. But then, this was in the days before outcome based education.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/4 "2003-06-13T15:49:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> And following that, the phrase “one-fifteen” clearly means 115 to American ears, but to a non-native could be taken as one (meaning a single) 15.
I don’t know the root of this practice, but I don’t think this would happen. When it’s written (‘115’), there’s no problem. And when it’s spoken, I think inflection makes it clear that it’s not the same as fifteen.
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### Author:  [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/5 "2003-06-13T15:58:26Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by milk milk lemonade \*
> \*\*eg. One hundred fifteen = 115
>
> instead of
>
> One hundred “and” fifteen.\*\*
What do you say for 12,345?
Twelve thousand **and** three hundred **and** forty five?
> [@](#):
>
> To me, the first one almost suggests a multiplication as:
>
> One hundred fifteen(s) = 1500
No, that would be fifteen hundred 😃 (IIRC in UK you do not say “hundred” to read a 4-digit number ending in two zeroes)
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### Author:  [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/6 "2003-06-13T16:30:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by CookingWithGas \*
> What do you say for 12,345?
>
> Twelve thousand **and** three hundred **and** forty five?
We would say that as if it were a list – twelve thousand, three hundred and forty five, like one apple, two bananas and a bunch of grapes.
> [@](#):
>
> No, that would be fifteen hundred 😃 (IIRC in UK you do not say “hundred” to read a 4-digit number ending in two zeroes)
You don’t remember correctly, we do say “hundred” in those cases, but it’s colloquial, not standard except for dates.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/7 "2003-06-13T17:03:36Z")
In school, I think I remember being taught both 1) say “AND” after the hundreds place" and 2) don’t say “AND” at all. The “fifteen hundred” thing is colloquial. Doesn’t explain where it came from, but I thought I’d mention it.
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### Author:  [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2003, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/8 "2003-06-13T17:03:41Z")
The [Chicago Manual of Style FAQ](http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/cmosfaq/cmosfaq.html) indicates both practices are acceptable. (Many professional editors and instructors consider CMS authoritative.)
I remember math teachers insisting students not use “and” in this way, but I don’t think I ever heard anything about it from English teachers.
In a mathematical context:
One hundred two thirds = 102/3
One hundred and two thirds = 100 2/3
But numbers like that don’t pop up very often in ordinary circumstances.
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### Author:  [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/9 "2003-06-13T17:52:41Z")
What about people like me, who compromise? If I saw “115”, I wouldn’t say “one hundred and fifteen” or “one-fifteen”, but something like, “hunnerdnfifteen” (note the ‘n’ between the ‘words’). And 12,345 would be “twelve thousand three hunnerdnfortyfive”. 😃
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### Author:  [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/10 "2003-06-13T18:03:55Z")
What about people like me, who compromise? If I saw “115”, I wouldn’t say “one hundred and fifteen” or “one-fifteen”, but something like, “hunnerdnfifteen” (note the ‘n’ between the ‘words’). And 12,345 would be “twelve thousand three hunnerdnfortyfive”. 😃
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### Author:  [@TitoBenito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TitoBenito)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2003, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/11 "2003-06-14T04:57:11Z")
In elementry school math classes, we would be docked points for putting “and” in the middle of our number. The only suitable place for “and” was between the whole number and the decimal or fraction, at least according to elementry math school teachers in the 80’s. The number had to be “five hundred twenty five and fifty one hundredth” not “five hundred and twenty five and fifty one hundredth”. I guess they just wanted to cut down on all confusion. It has been drilled into me ever since. Although I would say a hundred and fifteen on occasion, I would probibly skip the “and” for a very large numbers. Damn overzealous elementry school teachers.
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### Author:  [@Joe\_Gahona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Gahona)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/12 "2003-06-14T08:14:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by CookingWithGas_
> **What do you say for 12,345? Twelve thousand and three hundred and forty five?**
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by everton \*
> **We would say that as if it were a list – twelve thousand, three hundred and forty five**
Okay, but what would you say for 12,345.45?
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### Author:  [@nineiron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nineiron)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2003, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/13 "2003-06-14T10:24:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by RedDawgEsq \*
> \*\*There is possibly an analogy here: My high school (civics?) teacher taught us that when writing checks (that’s cheques to you), one uses the word “and” to designate the placement of the decimal point on the “alpha” line, i.e., “One hundred fifteen \ 49/100” \ where the numeric box contains “$115.49”. But then, this was in the days before outcome based education. \*\*
I don’t see how this is an analogy for the OP. I must be missing something–isn’t this a completely different situation? And I still write my checks this way. I thought everyone did. Or, is the OP saying that the check should be written as, “One hundred and fifteen dollars and 49/100”? (OK, maybe that was the analogy after all!)
I think that saying “three hundred AND forty-five” is about the same as saying the archaic “five and twenty” or even “twenty and five.”
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### Author:  [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2003, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/14 "2003-06-14T10:30:45Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Joe Gahona \*
> \*\*Okay, but what would you say for 12,345.45? \*\*
Twelve thousand, three hundred and forty-five point four five
or
Twelve thousand, three hundred and forty-five and forty-five hundredths
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### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/15 "2003-06-14T14:45:17Z")
I think I remember a teacher in grade school telling us not to say the “oh” or “and” in dates where the third digit is zero:
e.g. pronouncing 1906 as “nineteen six.” Not “nineteen oh six.” But saying it without the “oh” sounded so weird and artificial to me that I could never get used to it. Besides, no one except teachers really talked that way.
The zero as placeholder in place notation may have been unknown to the ancient Romans, but hey, Europeans have had at least 700 years now to get used to it.
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### Author:  [@Joe\_Gahona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Gahona)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/16 "2003-06-14T17:49:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by MC Master of Ceremonies \*
> \*\*Twelve thousand, three hundred and forty-five point four five
>
> or
>
> Twelve thousand, three hundred and forty-five and forty-five hundredths \*\*
Those make sense… but what about $12,345.45? Would you really say “and” twice?
BTW, has the British (DD/MM/YY) vs. American (MM/DD/YY) thing been discussed here? I’ve gotten into some delightful mind-numbing arguments about it with some British co-workers. 😃
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### Author:  [@milk\_milk\_lemonade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milk_milk_lemonade)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/17 "2003-06-14T23:14:50Z")
Thanks for the suggestions, very stimulating!
If the origins are just plain lazyness, how is it that “documentary” style TV shows keep up the practice?
Eg. In the UK we have plenty of regional dialect and slang, but when a documentary or news broadcast comes on the narrator usually speaks in the “Queens” English - the BBC house style of “proper” speaking.
USA shows tend to use the abbreviated way of speaking numbers regardless, indicating that it’s not a slang way of speaking at all but gramatically right.
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### Author:  [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-grammar-question/181584/18 "2003-06-14T23:26:09Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Joe Gahona \*
> \*\*Those make sense… but what about $12,345.45? Would you really say “and” twice?
>
> BTW, has the British (DD/MM/YY) vs. American (MM/DD/YY) thing been discussed here? I’ve gotten into some delightful mind-numbing arguments about it with some British co-workers. 😃 \*\*
Twelve thousand, three hundred and forty-five dollars and forty-five cents
or
Twelve thousand, three hundred and forty-five dollars forty-five
or
Twelve thousand, three hundred and forty-five forty-five.