# American History Debate: Could the Confederacy Still Have Won after July 1863? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 18, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-history-debate-could-the-confederacy-still-have-won-after-july-1863/240639 "2004-04-18T05:26:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-history-debate-could-the-confederacy-still-have-won-after-july-1863/240639/41 "2004-04-22T12:33:09Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > And isn’t CF Smith a great guy. He died of tetanus shortly after Shiloh but while he lived he was a tremendous influence on Grant, who was a little intimidated by him. The enduring image is of General Smith, on a huge bay horse, white mustachios flying in the breeze, taking the Second Iowa over the trenches at Fort Donelson screaming “Come on you God damned Volunteers, I’ll have no shirking here. You volunteered to die for your country and here’s your chance.” He told Grant that a soldier spent his whole life preparing to fight and when the time to fight came he must fight. He also told Grant that his personal motto was to obey all lawful orders and to fear nothing. Great guy and a real character. I’ll have to do a little reading as I am not terribly familiar with him. Sounds impressive though. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-history-debate-could-the-confederacy-still-have-won-after-july-1863/240639/42 "2004-04-22T13:25:15Z")
Do you think that Forrest should have been given a more important role? He was brilliant with his own men, but I wonder if he would have shone as brightly with, say, 20,000 men. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-history-debate-could-the-confederacy-still-have-won-after-july-1863/240639/43 "2004-04-22T17:23:04Z")
Certainly NB Forest was a tremendous tactical commander and a remarkably physically brave man, but do you really think that the class conscious Confederate government and a military structure dominated by professional soldiers would entrust an important independent command to an uneducated slave trader like Forest? I just can’t see Braxton Bragg or Joe Johnson or John Bell Hood, let alone Jeff Davis who made the ultimate choice of commanders, seeing Forest as any thing more than a potential lose cannon and as a hillbilly risen above his station. It was not until the very end of the war, after Hood’s Army of the Tennessee was broken up at Nashville in December 1864, that Forest was given a significant independent command and that was in the process of being beaten to death by James Wilson’s cavalry army when the war ended. His history was as a small force raider rather than as an army commander. You also get the idea that Forest did not play well with others. Remember what Hood’s soldiers sang as they retreated back into Alabama after Nashville: And now we’re marching Southward Our hearts are ful of woe, Going back to Alabama To find old Uncle Joe There’s a Yellow Rose in Texas… Uncle Joe was Joe Johnson who Davis had removed from command in favor of Hood just before Sherman reached Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-history-debate-could-the-confederacy-still-have-won-after-july-1863/240639/44 "2004-04-23T18:16:42Z")
Were Davis & Lee’s opinions of Forrest raised or lowered after the slaughter at Ft. Pillow? (OT1H, Davis certainly had an obsessive hatred of black Union soldiers, but otoh it was an “ungentlemanly” act by Forrest.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-history-debate-could-the-confederacy-still-have-won-after-july-1863/240639.md?page=2)