# American Idol 2/29 and beyond. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 28, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477 "2006-02-28T17:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/281 "2006-03-04T08:18:50Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Um, neither do I. > > But like Ryan Starr and Omarosa, I think she will end up on some trashy reality show–cast as the bitch–very, very soon. I think it is her destiny. I get this. That Real World chick from Las Vegas… the slutty one? I just downloaded a videoclip of her with Ron Jeremy, she was sitting at the dinner table with her tittys out. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/282 "2006-03-04T10:56:06Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Anyone who wins AI will be, by definition, forever and ever, irrelevant to Capital-M-Music. They will only be relevant to Capital-M-Marketing. Will you be stretching this to say that Kelly Clarkson’s Grammies are irelevant to Capital-M-Music? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/283 "2006-03-04T10:58:35Z")
> [@Walter Windchill](#): > > Some people think she’s a phony. That’s their opinion. Just like your idol-worship of baldy is your opinion. Again, no evidence. Will any be forthcoming, or will you just continue with these inane and banal mischaracterizations of people as some sort of Adlerian substitute for evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/284 "2006-03-04T11:01:37Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Chris is talented, but he’s among the least original singers in the bunch. He’s like 9th-generation derivative; he’s a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. It wasn’t even all that original when Eddie Vedder did it, and Eddie’s the creative great-grandfather of the guy that Chris is copying. I would call the great-grandfather Louis Armstrong. But I wouldn’t call the great-grandson a copy of the great-grandfather, or even a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. Otherwise, we must call every singer a copy of the first person to make tonal sounds. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/285 "2006-03-04T13:18:14Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Again, no evidence. Will any be forthcoming, or will you just continue with these inane and banal mischaracterizations of people as some sort of Adlerian substitute for evidence? Oh, the second one. ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/286 "2006-03-04T14:07:41Z")
I know it’s probably just the way the producers are portraying her, but Kellie Pickler’s life story as it’s been shown so far is supposed to be just so _all-god-awful all-the-time_ that it’s hard to believe it’s truth. I have no proof one way or the other, but in my limited experience, if something is too good to be true, it usually isn’t. I mean, she almost sounds like the girl in the Reba McEntire song “Fancy.” The poor girl’s been made into a parody of herself. While I want to believe that’s entirely the producers’ doing, she has to be aware, on some fundamental cellular level, how she is being portrayed, no? And I don’t get the impression that she’s doing anything to change anyone’s opinion of her. Perhaps she really _does_ lack the degree of self-awareness / savvy that other contestants have, but I strongly doubt that the producers would allow her to get to this point without believing that she has the guile to sell the image they’re marketing for her. And, unfortunately, _she does not have the talent to support the level of attention that’s been paid to her by the producers of this show_ (not IMHO, anyway, and not necessarily in the judges’, either). Her voice is perfectly serviceable, but it’s nothing spectacular, and all the hard knocks and bad luck in the world aren’t going to change that, as I pointed out [before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=359915&page=3&pp=50&highlight=american+idol+pickler). She almost needs the “backstory from Hell” to justify her being there among some of her competition. (Not that _they’re_ all wine and roses either, but hopefully you see my point.) Let me ask you this, and I really don’t mean to be confrontational, but: What is about her that you particularly like, that you keep defending her? Do you know things about her that we don’t which would redeem her in our eyes? As I said, I don’t hate _her_ per se, but I hate the tripe the producers are selling me - why should I believe the hype? (And bear in mind that I love Chris, who is just as annoying as Kellie to some people. I really don’t have a horse in this race, just curious about the psychology of it all, I guess.) ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/287 "2006-03-04T14:26:26Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I would call the great-grandfather Louis Armstrong. But I wouldn’t call the great-grandson a copy of the great-grandfather, or even a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. Otherwise, we must call every singer a copy of the first person to make tonal sounds. Yes, Chris Daughtry is definitely the next Louis Armstrong. When will they let him play his trumpet??? ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/288 "2006-03-04T14:30:04Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Again, no evidence. Will any be forthcoming, or will you just continue with these inane and banal mischaracterizations of people as some sort of Adlerian substitute for evidence? I explained my position [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7161514&postcount=273). You really, really have to stop taking (a) this show, (b) these discussions, and (c) yourself so seriously. It really isn’t civil at all to walk into a water-cooler reality TV discussion and start shoving people around because they dare critique your fave, or get all lawyery with asking people to defend what are just their impressions (and massively common ones if you check around). Context, man, context!! It’s American Idol. ---
**Author:** ![marymargaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@marymargaret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marymargaret)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/289 "2006-03-04T17:54:13Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Um, neither do I. > > But like Ryan Starr and Omarosa, I think she will end up on some trashy reality show–cast as the bitch–very, very soon. I think it is her destiny. Ah, fame whore. :smack: I think you are right on that one! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/290 "2006-03-04T19:17:33Z")
> [@Walter Windchill](#): > > Yes, Chris Daughtry is definitely the next Louis Armstrong. When will they let him play his trumpet??? Forget that. When will they let _me_ play _his_ trumpet? (Yeah, I know he’s married.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/291 "2006-03-04T19:48:45Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Let Chris win, or Ace. They fit the machinery mold perfectly. They’re already willing to whore out whatever sense of individuality or originality they might ever have been capable of. Unless you’ve been living in Chris’s sock drawer, I don’t see where you’re getting this. There simply isn’t that much data on these people. If you just have a feeling, that’s fine. I have a feeling that AI picks contestants to be cannon fodder so that they can get good ratings and still have their chosen ones make the final 12. I have a feeling that Kellie is really a hick, but is also a bit of a hambone and willing to emphasize her hickness to make people like her more. I’ve got no problem with that. I did have a problem last season with them claiming that Carrie Underwood was just some farm girl without any experience when she did a ton of shows and traveled with a band. They wanted an excuse for her utter lack of stage presence, which was hideously on display again Thursday. Ick. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/292 "2006-03-04T22:16:36Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I would call the great-grandfather Louis Armstrong. But I wouldn’t call the great-grandson a copy of the great-grandfather, or even a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. Otherwise, we must call every singer a copy of the first person to make tonal sounds. Wow. Talk about a stretch. Think maybe I was speaking a little more specifically, about specific influences and techniques, than the most basic human capacity to vocalize? You really have to stretch it all the way back to pre-speciation before you can find solid ground to take your stand on? You need to quit acting like you personally gave birth to these people, Lib. You’re standing over them like a mother bear. AI is one of the very worst aspects of our modern world; we should all be horribly ashamed for watching it. At the very least we shouldn’t be getting so astonishingly and hilariously defensive about it. I cannot think of one single thing on the planet that is less worthy of debate, let alone defense, than various individuals’ opinions of the contestants/victims on American Fucking Idol. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/293 "2006-03-04T22:19:46Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > AI is one of the very worst aspects of our modern world; we should all be horribly ashamed for watching it. At the very least we shouldn’t be getting so astonishingly and hilariously defensive about it. I cannot think of one single thing on the planet that is less worthy of debate, let alone defense, than various individuals’ opinions of the contestants/victims on American Fucking Idol. I am not ashamed for watching it, or enjoying it. Please stop. If you don’t like the show, please don’t comment in threads about it. It ruins other people’s fun. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/294 "2006-03-04T22:20:13Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Unless you’ve been living in Chris’s sock drawer, I don’t see where you’re getting this. There simply isn’t that much data on these people. Um, all you need to judge an artist’s artistic integrity is to see their art. I’m judging Chris as a performing artist; I’ve seen him perform. What’s his sock drawer have to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/295 "2006-03-04T22:21:49Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I am not ashamed for watching it, or enjoying it. > > Please stop. If you don’t like the show, please don’t comment in threads about it. It ruins other people’s fun. Have you not understood that I am watching it too? But I watch Jerry Springer sometimes. This is a discussion of the show; not a love fest for all concerned. The only requirement, far’s I know, is that I watch it and I have an opinion on it. I missed the loyalty-oath part of the process. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/296 "2006-03-04T22:25:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Will you be stretching this to say that Kelly Clarkson’s Grammies are irelevant to Capital-M-Music? Dude. Dude. Since when are the GRAMMIES relevant to Capital-M-Music? You’re still confusing Capital-M-Music with Capital-M-Marketing. The fact that Kelly Clarkson’s music was popular enough to win a Grammy is totally irrelevant to how significant she’s going to be to Music. I never said such was a requirement; it was just an observation. Most of the most significant figures in the history of rock/pop never won Grammies. Those that have, almost all of them won later in their career, well past their period of significance, after they’d become comfortable and familiar. Grammies != artisitic significance. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/297 "2006-03-04T22:45:28Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Um, all you need to judge an artist’s artistic integrity is to see their art. I’m judging Chris as a performing artist; I’ve seen him perform. What’s his sock drawer have to do with it? You just seem to be making it very personal. The singers are singing covers. That’s all we really know. > [@](#): > > Have you not understood that I am watching it too? But I watch Jerry Springer sometimes. You said you were going to stop watching because you disliked it. You also said we should feel ashamed for watching it. If you are, fine. Don’t speak for me, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/298 "2006-03-04T23:49:03Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > AI is one of the very worst aspects of our modern world. Generally I’ve been agreeing with you in this thread, but AI is hardly terrorism or a pending bird flu pandemic. It’s just a karaoke-themed game show. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/299 "2006-03-04T23:54:35Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You just seem to be making it very personal. The singers are singing covers. That’s all we really know. Lib has been making it personal. I’m just trying to explain my opinion. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > You said you were going to stop watching because you disliked it. You also said we should feel ashamed for watching it. If you are, fine. Don’t speak for me, ever. Where did I speak for you? just because I have a negative opinion where you have a positive opinion doesn’t mean, well, anything. It certainly doesn’t suggest that I’m “speaking for” you. Pretty much the opposite actually. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2006, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477/300 "2006-03-04T23:58:38Z")
> [@Walter Windchill](#): > > Generally I’ve been agreeing with you in this thread, but AI is hardly terrorism or a pending bird flu pandemic. It’s just a karaoke-themed game show. Spare me. Seriously. Do you really think I was literally comparing AI to terrorism? That’s about as classic a case of godwinism I’ve seen recently, with “terrorists” having universally replaced “Nazis” as the godwin of choice for the last few years. In the first place. In second place (I don’t believe I’m actually responding seriously to this), what part of “one of the” don’t you understand? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/american-idol-2-29-and-beyond/346477.md?page=16)